Date: Sat, 6 Apr 2013 15:03:30 -0600 From: Warner Losh <imp@bsdimp.com> To: Tim Kientzle <kientzle@freebsd.org> Cc: "freebsd-arm@freebsd.org" <freebsd-arm@freebsd.org> Subject: Re: "Beyond Buildworld" (was Re: RFC: "Crochet" build tool) Message-ID: <50CC112D-2B90-4E66-9D5F-829274D041D7@bsdimp.com> In-Reply-To: <8FCD7391-B9E3-478A-86E8-4414F750804D@freebsd.org> References: <CFBA557F-3DB9-40BA-B222-8E8C67707C9B@freebsd.org> <5DFA61DB-70E4-4C3D-ACA0-995A175706C8@neville-neil.com> <5151B454.9090402@ceetonetechnology.com> <1CBF1416-3237-4DCE-8D61-7E998265C887@neville-neil.com> <1364311809.36972.27.camel@revolution.hippie.lan> <CAJ-Vmomcaoe4cBFtFbXHSe2ygWA9JZnMkE_zoy80unuT-L1Axg@mail.gmail.com> <5151D045.80305@thieprojects.ch> <CAJ-Vmomk0aGykV2Zv_9nW9Lg9THHspkfjHhiu7dEz1k1nPAibw@mail.gmail.com> <5151D9DB.7050001@thieprojects.ch> <167CF57D-01E3-4857-BF0E-C40B00FED226@netgate.com> <CAJ-VmokxSYqy4Zr1wtN=Ln4-2wJybqGeh_LSAC1tNM44DjTF1w@mail.gmail.com> <515ADB81.7090908@freebsd.org> <C271E400-CAE1-4118-ADF8-A8CA72B25972@kientzle.com> <515DF177.9060907@freebsd.org> <4DC4C47C-D503-4155-8FAF-6D5C88D8F67C@freebsd.org> <CAJ-Vmon7dB3h3pX3x4GS0rJB1zeszQubo7L4ahPAqCkFRpe2Aw@mail.gmail.com> <8FCD7391-B9E3-478A-86E8-4414F750804D@freebsd.org>
next in thread | previous in thread | raw e-mail | index | archive | help
On Apr 6, 2013, at 11:45 AM, Tim Kientzle wrote: >=20 > On Apr 4, 2013, at 10:40 PM, Adrian Chadd wrote: >=20 >> Hm, how about something a bit more modular? >>=20 >> As in, adding hooks to make release / nanobsd / tinybsd to let us tie >> in the embedded platform requirements, like building bootloaders and >> such; >=20 > George is setting up a DevSummit track for BSDCan (the > "Beyond Buildworld" WG) about this exact issue. > Will you be there? I'll be there. > I'll be there and here are a few of the issues I'd like to discuss: >=20 > * What hooks are appropriate? In part, Crochet is an experiment > to explore ways of factoring these issues, but I don't know > release or nanobsd well enough to judge whether the > ideas I'm coming up with would fit well into those. Most of the ones that NanoBSD has are quite useful... I'm sure there are = many others that would be good in addition, since NanoBSD hasn't kept = pace. > * How do boot loaders get managed? Crochet has been > downloading, patching, and building directly from upstream > sources, but that's getting tedious fast. Can we maintain boot > loaders as ports?[1] I think that we can and should, to the extent we need to do so. Most = boards have a perfectly good boot loader already, but some like the = popular RPi don't. Thankfully, the images for the boot loaders tend to = be separable from the main image that people load on them and run/boot. > * What policy should FreeBSD project use to determine which > specific boards to release official images for? For that matter, > should the project release "official images" at all? Or should > we leave that in the hands of other parties? In general, we shouldn't be aiming to release a general loader / kernel = that runs everywhere. To release lots of other images will get difficult = quickly. Alas, the current kernel infrastructure is a little weak to do = this (actually it is impossible at the moment). We should have clear = goals here, though, otherwise we'll quickly get bogged down. If we = require multiple images, then we should automate the snot out of that, = or if a popular board requires custom hacks. To this end, I think we should examine making ubldr position independent = code. Once we have this, it can relocate itself and load the actual = kernel at a board specific location it can determine from the FDT... > I'm not expecting to come up with final answers to these > at BSDCan, but I'm hoping to get enough people involved to > at least enumerate some of the avenues to explore. Yea, if we can get a good consensus on a direction, we can all pull in = that direction, rather in the somewhat fractured different directions we = have been pulling in to doate. > [1] If someone wants to try creating a port of some boot loader > as an experiment, I'm happy to collaborate on integrating it into > Crochet to see how well that works. I would suggest trying > to build a port for RPi U-Boot as a first proof-of-concept. That would be cool... Again, I worry about getting in the business of = too many board support, but we may want to do that for the most popular = ones. Warner=
Want to link to this message? Use this URL: <https://mail-archive.FreeBSD.org/cgi/mid.cgi?50CC112D-2B90-4E66-9D5F-829274D041D7>