Date: Tue, 9 Oct 2012 09:24:37 -0700 From: Devin Teske <devin.teske@fisglobal.com> To: Ian Lepore <freebsd@damnhippie.dyndns.org> Cc: Garrett Cooper <yanegomi@gmail.com>, Devin Teske <dteske@freebsd.org>, freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Subject: Re: New Boot Loader Menu Message-ID: <6389190E-16B1-4B32-937D-677B966EB7AA@fisglobal.com> In-Reply-To: <1349798845.1123.10.camel@revolution.hippie.lan> References: <0655B56F-AD43-402B-872C-568378E650F9@fisglobal.com> <5071D6B5.1010609@FreeBSD.org> <B4A82131-4B11-4FE8-839B-FCC45C1D4445@fisglobal.com> <50726C73.10506@FreeBSD.org> <D776ABE7-6C46-4C66-8C6E-159BCD61761F@fisglobal.com> <50732CB1.9080900@gmx.de> <71571815-CBF3-4B16-BA77-2828B8BA613C@fisglobal.com> <CAGH67wQKUvbB1TNJofA6_qXhkxqC_At_Fmg8fcqswj_exBxBFQ@mail.gmail.com> <515694A9-3D0F-4150-8865-F518072C5EC6@fisglobal.com> <C26CCFD0-8C9C-4E9E-827B-96F8F8D95B28@bsdimp.com> <1349798845.1123.10.camel@revolution.hippie.lan>
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On Oct 9, 2012, at 9:07 AM, Ian Lepore wrote: > On Tue, 2012-10-09 at 09:53 -0600, Warner Losh wrote: >> On Oct 9, 2012, at 9:25 AM, Devin Teske wrote: >>=20 >>> =85Re-adding the list=85 (good point) >>>=20 >>> On Oct 9, 2012, at 8:15 AM, Garrett Cooper wrote: >>>=20 >>>> On Tue, Oct 9, 2012 at 8:05 AM, Devin Teske <devin.teske@fisglobal.com= > wrote: >>>>> =85Re-adding the list=85 >>>>>=20 >>>>> On Oct 8, 2012, at 12:42 PM, olli hauer wrote: >>>>>=20 >>>>>> ... >>>>>>=20 >>>>>>> You'll also get zero argument out of me that putting "Delete" on-sc= reen is not only to-be-avoided for the opposing situation (that some keyboa= rds may not have a "Delete" but instead "Backspace") but indeed "Delete" is= worse because the implied connotation associated with the "Delete" key (_s= omeone_ might be confused into thinking "Delete" will purge the menu from m= emory). >>>>>>>=20 >>>>>>> I will play with keycodes. >>>>>>>=20 >>>>>>> Just be aware that currently left arrow CANNOT work. That is a bad = suggestion (read why below). >>>>>>>=20 >>>>>>> In Forth, I'm using the "key" primitive which -- rather unfortunate= ly -- produces a zero for "left-arrow", "right-arrow", "up-arrow", "down-ar= row", "F1", "F2", "F3", "F4", "F5", "F6", "F7", "F8", "F9", and "F10" (note= : it doesn't catch "F11", "F12", "F13", "F14", "F15", or "F16"). >>>>>>>=20 >>>>>>> So all those key options are right-out when it comes to "using them= instead of Backspace" (I simply can't identify in the loader when those ke= ys are pressed). >>>>>>>=20 >>>>>>=20 >>>>>> ... >>>>>>=20 >>>>>> will the space key work for a general back to or up one entry? >>>>>> I suspect the space bar has the same keycode on all platforms (intel= /appel/ppc/sparc ...) >>>>>>=20 >>>>>> Anyway nice work :) >>>>>>=20 >>>>>=20 >>>>> By golly, I think olli is on to something here! >>>>>=20 >>>>> What does everybody think about space? >>>>>=20 >>>>> I like it because it's a NICE BIG TARGET (and it's not used by anythi= ng else). >>>>=20 >>>> It was used once upon a time to pause the bootloader countdown=85 >>>=20 >>> Well=85 that hasn't *really* been true since r222417 (16+ months ago). >>>=20 >>> Ever since r222417, *any/all* keys will kill the countdown-to-boot. >>>=20 >>> Since you mention it, I think it's worth mentioning that SPACE is still= looking like a good choice=85 >>>=20 >>> At the main-menu, space is not hooked into anything so it retains its l= egacy of "press SPACE to stop the countdown" meanwhile, submenus are free t= o use SPACE because by the time they've reached *any* submenu, the countdow= n has already been killed. >>=20 >> This will be too confusing for users. Space usually means 'select the c= urrent menu item' along with Return. It doesn't mean in any system I've ev= er used 'go back' (with the exception of space selecting a drawn button tha= t says back). >=20 > I agree, using space for "go back" would be a POLA violation.=20=20 >=20 > How about Escape, that often means go-back in a UI (common in BIOS > config screens), and I didn't see it on the list of forbidden keys. >=20 The main-menu uses it to drop the user to the interactive "ok>" prompt. --=20 Devin > (Not that I'm emotionally invested in this stuff at all. The only > boot-menu feature that I would fight hard for is the one that I've used > for years: beastie_disable=3DYES.) >=20 > -- Ian >=20 >=20 _____________ The information contained in this message is proprietary and/or confidentia= l. If you are not the intended recipient, please: (i) delete the message an= d all copies; (ii) do not disclose, distribute or use the message in any ma= nner; and (iii) notify the sender immediately. In addition, please be aware= that any message addressed to our domain is subject to archiving and revie= w by persons other than the intended recipient. Thank you.
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