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Date:      Wed, 3 Jul 2013 01:34:36 -0500
From:      Kevin Day <toasty@dragondata.com>
To:        Jeremy Chadwick <jdc@koitsu.org>
Cc:        freebsd-fs <freebsd-fs@freebsd.org>
Subject:   Re: EBS snapshot backups from a FreeBSD zfs file system: zpool freeze?
Message-ID:  <6488DECC-2455-4E92-B432-C39490D18484@dragondata.com>
In-Reply-To: <20130703055047.GA54853@icarus.home.lan>
References:  <87li5o5tz2.wl%berend@pobox.com> <CA%2BtpaK1jQuKneQsxkVfxJGzXdPdLZfqBM1QWQ0e19nK5t71t1Q@mail.gmail.com> <87ehbg5raq.wl%berend@pobox.com> <20130703055047.GA54853@icarus.home.lan>

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On Jul 3, 2013, at 12:50 AM, Jeremy Chadwick <jdc@koitsu.org> wrote:

> On Wed, Jul 03, 2013 at 02:08:13PM +1200, Berend de Boer wrote:
>>=20
>> For starters, I suppose very few people are using FreeBSD on AWS, so
>> "most of us" don't have a choice :-)
>>=20
>> But this might simply be my understanding: what if I want to use the
>> EBS snapshot of the 5 disks I've taken and attach them to another
>> machine, and mount it?
>>=20
>> But perhaps you don't know what an EBS snapshot is? It's not a backup
>> of your file system, it's a hardware-based backup of a disk at a
>> single point in time.
>>=20
>> I.e. with EBS I can take a snapshot of 5 1TB, create new disks from
>> it, and attach it to another machine. In SECONDS.
>=20
> Okay, I think I understand what you're asking.  Please correct me:
>=20
> It sounds to me like the Linux OS images on AWS have utilities or the
> capability to create EBS images that are snapshots of the "virtual
> disks" that make up the AWS system, and that you can transfer these
> to another Linux AWS machine and mount the EBS images, and that this =
is
> being done within Linux itself.
>=20
> Correct?
>=20
> If so -- then what you're wanting to ask is: "does FreeBSD have =
support
> for EBS images?"  (Meaning this has nothing to do with ZFS)  I get the
> impression an EBS image is a proprietary Amazon thing, so you would =
need
> to ask Amazon if they have the same utilities for FreeBSD, or ask the
> individual(s) responsible for the FreeBSD AWS images if there are such
> tools.  Again: nothing to do with ZFS.

Not quite, we run into something similar with VMware ESXi, so let me try =
to rephrase it.

ESXi provides block storage to virtual machines that appear to be =
traditional disks. ESXi has no real knowledge of the contents, files, =
it's just dumb block storage. This is like EBS, the volumes appear to be =
normal disks to the virtual machine.

But, the backend storage system allows you to take snapshots of the =
virtual disks. You can then roll back to an earlier snapshot, or make =
copies of the snapshots for other VMs to use. The problem is that unless =
you quiesce the filesystem before making the snapshot, the contents are =
potentially "dirty". It could be mid-write, or in the middle of doing =
something that would be bad to leave that way. If you're unlucky and =
make a snapshot during one of those inconsistent periods, if you were to =
rollback or clone that snapshot you'd get fsck complaining (for UFS) or =
ZFS may need to do some repairing, etc. This is much less an issue with =
ZFS than other filesystems, but it's still possible to think you've =
written something, try to trigger a snapshot, and it's not actually =
committed to disk yet.

Linux has an ioctl(?) you can call that says "Quiesce this filesystem", =
where all dirty buffers are flushed and (i believe), writes are blocked, =
and the filesystem is temporarily marked clean. You then trigger the =
backend storage to make a filesystem, then you unfreeze the filesystem =
so that normal I/O can continue.

The closest thing we can do in FreeBSD is to unmount the filesystem, =
take the snapshot, and remount. This has the side effect of closing all =
open files, so it's not really an alternative.=20

The other option is to not freeze the filesystem before taking the =
snapshot, but again you risk leaving things in an inconsistent state, =
and/or the last few writes you think you made didn't actually get =
committed to disk yet. For automated systems that create then clone =
filesystems for new VMs, this can be a big problem. At best, you're =
going to get a warning that the filesystem wasn't cleanly unmounted.



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