Date: Sun, 8 Dec 2013 11:02:06 -0800 From: Alfred Perlstein <bright@mu.org> To: Devin Teske <dteske@freebsd.org> Cc: Tom Evans <tevans.uk@googlemail.com>, "freebsd-stable@freebsd.org Stable" <freebsd-stable@freebsd.org>, Alfred Perlstein <alfred@FreeBSD.org>, "Teske, Devin" <Devin.Teske@fisglobal.com>, Daniel Eischen <deischen@freebsd.org>, Kevin Oberman <rkoberman@gmail.com>, Kurt Jaeger <lists@c0mplx.org>, Devin Teske <dteske@freebsd.org>, Julian Elischer <julian@freebsd.org> Subject: Re: BIND segway -> python -> first-class ports Message-ID: <7271C4C4-7BAB-4DA7-9E10-49D5B2DB8964@mu.org> In-Reply-To: <0BFC927B-D72E-4926-BB3D-2C000F310BDD@fisglobal.com> References: <mailman.313.1386119137.1390.freebsd-stable@freebsd.org> <529E8C53.6020208@freebsd.org> <Pine.GSO.4.64.1312032238220.15897@sea.ntplx.net> <20131204060246.GV2951@home.opsec.eu> <CAN6yY1udd1GbQVK4YR-yxNe7vqX3S1refQwch2cafRnMv=W4mA@mail.gmail.com> <CAFHbX1K1AgZ4FaEjP_vvnfiwDWsj6M3ysEVn4taX_4_p%2B1Z8Nw@mail.gmail.com> <CAN6yY1tjS=uk1Qr-sBN0PT73xpP%2BBxL8wLt9aosYfWf751rC5A@mail.gmail.com> <52A12843.3010204@freebsd.org> <0BFC927B-D72E-4926-BB3D-2C000F310BDD@fisglobal.com>
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> On Dec 8, 2013, at 10:32 AM, "Teske, Devin" <Devin.Teske@fisglobal.com> wr= ote: >=20 >=20 >> On Dec 5, 2013, at 5:28 PM, Alfred Perlstein wrote: >>=20 >>=20 >>> On 12/5/13, 4:39 PM, Kevin Oberman wrote: >>>> On Wed, Dec 4, 2013 at 9:17 AM, Tom Evans <tevans.uk@googlemail.com> wr= ote: >>>>=20 >>>>> On Wed, Dec 4, 2013 at 5:09 PM, Kevin Oberman <rkoberman@gmail.com> wr= ote: >>>>> Of course, the question of what needs to be a class 1 port may prove t= o >>>> be >>>>> the bikeshed to end all bikesheds! (I think we need Python, Perl, JPEG= , >>>>> PNG, GPG, BIND and bright yellow!) And we need a reasonable mechanism t= o >>>>> update this list as the popularity of various tools does change. >>>> Woah, this is missing most of what Alfred was saying. There should be >>>> no "class 1 ports", and if jpeg went in base, it should be because >>>> base requires and uses it, not because it is useful to 3rd party >>>> software in base. The base jpeg *would not* even be visible to >>>> ports/3rd party software by default, only to base and things >>>> especially configured to use base. >>>>=20 >>>> You are correct. I did not understand Alfred's proposal correctly. Of >>> course, I can see several issues with that, as well, but it' a lot more >>> tractable than a set of "baseline" ports. >> Tom hit the nail on the head and perfectly described the proposal. Thank y= ou Tom. Kevin, thanks for being open to the idea. >>=20 >>=20 >> My hope is that it allows us to build richer system. For instance, go lo= ok at portsnap(1), it's written in sh(1) and due to that it's pretty slow >=20 > Perhaps bsdconfig is the exception to that rule (and can lend a hand). > I designed bsdconfig to run fast under double-emulation... >=20 > + Running under qemu, while... > + Qemu is running inside a VM, wile... > + VM has only 1 CPU and 128MB RAM, with minimal disk space, while... > + VM is running on a 8 year old laptop >=20 > The idea is that... if you develop for the worst of environments... you'll= get > screamin' performance on modern hardware. >=20 > In my emulation environment... a single fork is very costly. >=20 > So... >=20 > Does portsnap need some work? is that what I'm hearing? (smiles) My take is that you are a very talented person who shouldn't be spending tim= e micro optimizing shell code and instead be granted a language that makes w= riting such tools more efficiently easier.=20 So if I were going to task the talented Devin Teske with something, remember= you just asked my opinion, then it would be to look at putting Lua in the b= oot loader, getting python into base, or working on making our utilities be a= ble to output standard machine readable formats such as yaml, XML and json. = =20 > --=20 > Devin >=20 > _____________ > The information contained in this message is proprietary and/or confidenti= al. If you are not the intended recipient, please: (i) delete the message an= d all copies; (ii) do not disclose, distribute or use the message in any man= ner; and (iii) notify the sender immediately. In addition, please be aware t= hat any message addressed to our domain is subject to archiving and review b= y persons other than the intended recipient. Thank you. >=20
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