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Date:      Thu, 7 Jan 2016 13:11:10 +0300
From:      Dmitry Sivachenko <trtrmitya@gmail.com>
To:        Mark Heily <mark@heily.com>
Cc:        Jonathan de Boyne Pollard <J.deBoynePollard-newsgroups@ntlworld.com>, FreeBSD Hackers <freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org>
Subject:   Re: relaunchd: a portable clone of launchd
Message-ID:  <817860B6-5D67-41A3-ADD7-9757C7E67C35@gmail.com>
In-Reply-To: <CAGfo=8kXzNVKy9gx0jkME4iRRyrgrsfpPnW3nYrZC0gysapPcg@mail.gmail.com>
References:  <5687D3A9.5050400@NTLWorld.com> <CAGfo=8kXzNVKy9gx0jkME4iRRyrgrsfpPnW3nYrZC0gysapPcg@mail.gmail.com>

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> On 07 Jan 2016, at 05:12, Mark Heily <mark@heily.com> wrote:
>=20
> On Sat, Jan 2, 2016 at 8:42 AM, Jonathan de Boyne Pollard
> <J.deBoynePollard-newsgroups@ntlworld.com> wrote:
>>=20
>> I recommend, to anyone going down this route, looking towards =
finishing
>> systembsd, especially instead of inventing a wholly new suite of =
protocols.
>>=20
>> * https://uglyman.kremlin.cc/gitweb/gitweb.cgi?p=3Dsystembsd.git
>> *
>> =
http://homepage.ntlworld.com./jonathan.deboynepollard/FGA/debian-systemd-p=
ackaging-hoo-hah.html
>> * https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=3D10176275
>>=20
>> The reason is that finishing systemdbsd will make happy all of the =
people
>> who want the desktop environments whose design is driven largely by =
Linux to
>> work on FreeBSD/PC-BSD.  The desktop environments that they'd like to =
use
>> have been or are being modified to work with these daemons, over this =
D-Bus
>> protocol.
>>=20
>=20
> I strongly disagree with your recommendation to adopt DBus and systemd
> as core components of FreeBSD.
>=20
> =46rom a practical perspective, the proposal has a low probability of
> success. Systemd is written for Linux and is largely driven by a
> commercial Linux vendor. It is a rapidly moving target, with no sense
> of scope or boundaries. It eagerly consumes the latest and greatest
> innovations in the Linux kernel, with open disdain for portability.
>=20
> =46rom a philosophical perspective, I don't agree with the direction
> that systemd is taking Linux. It's one of the reasons I switched to
> BSD after many years in the Linux camp. To quote Spock, "Logic clearly
> dictates that the needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few". In
> case of FreeBSD, this means that the needs of the desktop users should
> not outweigh the needs of the server/jail/embedded/appliance users. My
> concern with systemd and DBus is that these tools are highly
> desktop-centric, and introduce a large degree of unwanted change,
> complexity, and risk to everyone else.


I totally agree.

systemd is an ugly beast, solving simple problem in complex way.

After using FreeBSD's rc system for years, I think that switching to =
something systemd-related would be huge mistake.
No reason to clone everything that happens in Linux world.=



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