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Date:      Fri, 7 Jan 2011 23:48:07 -0600
From:      Ade Lovett <ade@FreeBSD.org>
To:        Doug Barton <dougb@FreeBSD.org>
Cc:        freebsd-current@freebsd.org, Ade Lovett <ade@FreeBSD.org>
Subject:   Re: HEADS UP: Merge of binutils 2.17
Message-ID:  <82CF1B3F-B5F0-4B26-A6D1-8767370C1E0E@FreeBSD.org>
In-Reply-To: <4D27A3B8.4070401@FreeBSD.org>
References:  <4D277E4B.1030006@FreeBSD.org> <4D27840A.8020107@FreeBSD.org> <4D2785A7.7080106@FreeBSD.org> <4D27888F.4090703@FreeBSD.org> <467EA052-70AB-4C4C-B28E-9AD037C8BF14@FreeBSD.org> <4D27A3B8.4070401@FreeBSD.org>

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On Jan 07, 2011, at 17:37 , Doug Barton wrote:
> On 01/07/2011 13:54, Ade Lovett wrote:
>>=20
>> Most likely it's low priority given all the other exp-runs that
>> affect 7.x/8.x, tweaking things for an 6.x-EOL-tagged tree, and a
>> bunch of other infrastructure stuff.  Not to mention the impending 7-
>> and 8- RELEASEs.

Before I start on this, I would like a few things noted for the record:

1.  I have set Reply-To to developers@ (this should be a major hint)
2.  I am not a current member of portmgr@
3.  I requested, and served, for a very short time, on the first portmgr
 =20

> That may very well be the case, but if so then it's incumbent on =
portmgr to communicate that. If you check the audit trail you will find =
that they did not.

Horsecrap.  You are taking an individual PR history without reference to =
the whole host of things that were also going on at the same time.  Like =
it or not, when it comes to ports, -STABLE wins over -CURRENT every =
single time.

> IMO this is a total red herring, and has been for several years now. I =
run -current every day on my real-work system, and barring the =
occasional hiccup it's been buildable nearly every time I've tried.

Apologies for not being able to drive my email client appropriately.  =
The issue at hand is one of running -CURRENT.

There is a distinct, and fundamental difference between running -CURRENT =
on a single system, as opposed to a cluster of systems that are tightly =
interlinked.   I do not doubt that -CURRENT works for you on your =
individual machines.  If you would like a taste of how heavily package =
build clusters stress out whatever host system they are running on, then =
I urge you to install one of the two tinderbox ports under ports-mgmt, =
proceed to add, let's say, x11/gnome2 or x11/kde4, and run the build.

make buildworld/buildkernel/installworld/installkernel plus associated =
steps is in fact an exceptionally tiny subset of what FreeBSD actually =
does on a daily basis.  Even more so when it comes to the bulk building =
of packages that apparently a lot of folks rely on.

> The way I would approach the problem of building packages for -current =
is to pick a day to update the src tree, then do the following:

Sadly, the only thing I can say to your 4-step procedure, and with =
utmost politeness, is that your src-centric views are completely missing =
the point.  "4. start building ports" is in fact a 20- or 30-step =
process to ensure no cross-contamination.  Even a cursory glance at =
/usr/ports/Tools/portbuild would verify this.  No-one really likes =
having massive clusters, requiring continual attention (hardware =
failures and so on).  Really.

> But the current system of "don't do anything" just isn't cutting it.

I look forward to your input and total solutions on how to make this =
better.  I do.  This may sound sarcastic, but I am absolutely, =
positively, 100-percent looking for better solutions, particularly in =
situations where, to take a random example, the entire existing compiler =
base is removed and replaced with something better.

Doug, you have comprehensively shown that in its current (sic) =
instantiation, the package building cluster is completely, utterly, and =
totally incapable of keeping up with the sandbox that is -CURRENT.

I for one look forward to your proposed solutions to this righteous =
problem.

Regards,
-aDe




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