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Date:      Thu, 14 Aug 2014 10:13:26 -0600
From:      Warner Losh <imp@bsdimp.com>
To:        John Baldwin <jhb@freebsd.org>
Cc:        Marcel Moolenaar <marcel@freebsd.org>, Phil Shafer <phil@juniper.net>, John-Mark Gurney <jmg@funkthat.com>, "Simon J. Gerraty" <sjg@juniper.net>, arch@freebsd.org, Poul-Henning Kamp <phk@phk.freebsd.dk>, freebsd-arch <freebsd-arch@freebsd.org>, Konstantin Belousov <kostikbel@gmail.com>
Subject:   Re: XML Output: libxo - provide single API to output TXT, XML, JSON and HTML
Message-ID:  <94A47A7D-89C9-4504-B669-2A5EDA80373B@bsdimp.com>
In-Reply-To: <201408140847.00573.jhb@freebsd.org>
References:  <20140814052648.GM2737@kib.kiev.ua> <201408140606.s7E66XXA091972@idle.juniper.net> <20140814085257.GN2737@kib.kiev.ua> <201408140847.00573.jhb@freebsd.org>

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On Aug 14, 2014, at 6:47 AM, John Baldwin <jhb@freebsd.org> wrote:

>>> Marking the binary with a libxo-specific note tells the caller that
>>> the binary is capable of rendering its output in a non-traditional
>>> style and gives the caller a means of triggering those styles of
>>> output.  In the libxo-enabled world, I see this as vital information
>>> the caller needs to initialize the environment in which the command
>>> will be run.  Isn't this exactly the sort of information ELF targets
>>> for note sections?
>>=20
>> How binary format has any relevance for an application level feature =
?
>> What would you do with the binaries which permissions are =
'r-s--x--x',
>> which is not unexpected for the tools which gather system information
>> and have to access things like /dev/mem ?
>>=20
>> You removed and did not answered a crusial question, which is a =
litmus
>> test for your proposal.  Namely, how presence of the proposed note in
>> the binary is different from DT_NEEDED tag for your library ?
>=20
> Yes, checking DT_NEEDED for libxo.so is the first thing I thought of =
as well. =20
> It is equivalent to 'ldd foo | grep libxo'.

Doesn=92t work for static binaries, nor for cases where libxo is linked =
in by a
library indirectly, nor for when the command is a shell script that may
invoke a command that supports this output, nor for a python script that
implements this output, etc.

My question for people advocating this method: Why not require all =
commands
that generate this kind of output to support a standard command line =
option
that causes the command to print nothing and return 0 if it supports =
reporting,
or anything else if it doesn=92t (return 0 with output, or return =
non-zero with or without
output). This would handle the more complicated implementation issues =
with using
DT_NEEDED and/or the ELF note, be more in line with how things are =
traditionally
done, and offer greater flexibility of implementation.

Warner

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