Date: Thu, 13 Apr 2023 13:31:02 +0200 From: Mario Marietto <marietto2008@gmail.com> To: Alejandro Imass <aimass@yabarana.com> Cc: Paul Pathiakis <pathiaki2@yahoo.com>, "Steve O'Hara-Smith" <steve@sohara.org>, Tim Preston <tim@timpreston.net>, freebsd-questions <freebsd-questions@freebsd.org> Subject: Re: Docker Message-ID: <CA%2B1FSiiCG-iugAbSoNC2r5WXCJvgi6pj3jG74jCwukhNtb_XGA@mail.gmail.com> In-Reply-To: <CAHieY7RFe0P85twcs1NiiAvTTr4oGPJEtXEkufsXswQt3ECGvg@mail.gmail.com> References: <20230329053443.6ADA6B6AFED5@dhcp-8e64.meeting.ietf.org> <8E16D624-2655-4A10-844A-93E4F63E9859@gromit.dlib.vt.edu> <078a1cf8-7ae2-c593-615b-f5f37fa2b3eb@timpreston.net> <CA%2B1FSij9j922Nvv1Vhn43HznwpyGT99UZsU674G9hHWzR=UhvQ@mail.gmail.com> <06be3a1e-9319-1a21-88b9-4f87328ee127@timpreston.net> <CA%2B1FSijc%2B-OLNsyFNdR=jP3VzMi4zUE92i5iv9Pfg6AryDy_KQ@mail.gmail.com> <34b4b76e-1c41-4cfb-9e86-856f01e8abc9@app.fastmail.com> <CA%2B1FSihVrJ8cZ4ZU6mMr0sKJsZ98V4fh2vpDLugw7MGj-%2BEBPg@mail.gmail.com> <CA%2B1FSijL50mQ-HveBA4HZeNkSoaORv=aty-15nNLzn9amzY_nw@mail.gmail.com> <6002f636-310b-a9fd-b82f-346618976983@timpreston.net> <CA%2B1FSigV_pPwVW%2BDd8WZYGcNQVt7%2BYOcsnJFoRhS6jL5A636pg@mail.gmail.com> <20230412150350.12f97eb2c9dd566b8c8702d2@sohara.org> <CA%2B1FSihVPCQ6tp8u=aqnLyyOPpCMrnhYGcC8bCUgRbFHTdY5sA@mail.gmail.com> <1535315680.2770963.1681309684072@mail.yahoo.com> <CAHieY7RFe0P85twcs1NiiAvTTr4oGPJEtXEkufsXswQt3ECGvg@mail.gmail.com>
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The point of my argumentation is not if FreeBSD has or not good tools for
containerizing and securing applications. It has. Point is that the users
that don't know FreeBSD are tied to their own tools and rarely want to
change them. Almost everyone wants to change. But trying,experimenting and
changing something in the workflow is important,because every tool has bad
and good sides. There are many docker images already to be used on the net
and this will save a lot of time and effort and money for a lot of people.
This is a fact. And I think that it happened because Docker is...good.
FreeBSD has tools like docker,but the mass production of containerized
images never happened. So,would we ask ourselves the reason ? Maybe
something has not gone well. I use Linux and FreeBSD and I "love" both
these systems. Linux has a larger user base than FreeBSD. A larger user
base may mean more innovations in a small time,a faster bug correction and
so on.
I think that mostly advantages from the implementation of docker on FreeBSD
will come from the user base. Mostly for those users that come from linux
or other OS and that already use docker and kubernetes. I don't think those
users are a small number. Those users could jump to FreeBSD if Docker /
Kubernetes are implemented in FreeBSD. This could be the straw that broke
the camel's back. You argue that the jails are working already great and
that they should use them. I argue that the freebsd community could have a
more tolerant behavior to the users that could jump to the FreeBSD world
and they should not force them to learn only new technologies at first. To
have some important tools which work on multiple systems means having a
good business card. So,in the end I ask to myself and to you : FreeBSD
needs to grow in terms of community ? Does it need to be populated by a
bigger number of users that will come from another OS base community ?
On Thu, Apr 13, 2023 at 10:17=E2=80=AFAM Alejandro Imass <aimass@yabarana.c=
om>
wrote:
>
>
> On Wed, Apr 12, 2023 at 4:28=E2=80=AFPM Paul Pathiakis <pathiaki2@yahoo.c=
om>
> wrote:
>
>> I believe the simplest thing would be to wrap jails or iocage in an
>> interface that looks like and behaves Docker-like.
>>
>>
> and Bastille!
>
>
>>
>>
--=20
Mario.
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<div dir=3D"ltr"><div>The point of my argumentation is not if FreeBSD has o=
r not good tools for containerizing and securing applications. It has. Poin=
t is that the users that don't know FreeBSD are tied to their own tools=
and rarely want to change them. Almost everyone wants to change. But tryin=
g,experimenting and changing something in the workflow is important,because=
every tool has bad and good sides. There are many docker images already to=
be used on the net and this will save a lot of time and effort and money f=
or a lot of people. This is a fact. And I think that it happened because Do=
cker is...good. FreeBSD has tools like docker,but the mass production of co=
ntainerized images never happened. So,would we ask ourselves the reason ? M=
aybe something has not gone well. I use Linux and FreeBSD and I "love&=
quot; both these systems. Linux has a larger user base than FreeBSD. A larg=
er user base may mean more innovations in a small time,a faster bug correct=
ion and so on. <br></div><div><br></div><div>I think that mostly advantages=
from the implementation of docker on FreeBSD will come from the user base.=
Mostly=20
for those users that come from linux or other OS and that already use=20
docker and kubernetes. I don't think those users are a small number.=20
Those users could jump to FreeBSD if Docker / Kubernetes are implemented
in FreeBSD. This could be the <span lang=3D"en">straw that broke the camel=
's back</span>. You argue that the jails are working already great and =
that they should use them. I argue that the freebsd community could have a =
more<span lang=3D"en">
tolerant behavior to the users that could jump to the FreeBSD world and th=
ey should not force them to learn only new technologies at first. To have s=
ome important tools which work on multiple systems means</span><span class=
=3D"gmail-Y2IQFc" lang=3D"en"> having a good business card.</span><span lan=
g=3D"en"> So,in the=20
end I ask to myself and to you : FreeBSD needs to grow in terms of <span>co=
mmunity</span> ? Does it need to be populated by a bigger number of users t=
hat will come from another OS base <span>community</span> ? </span></div></=
div><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"gmail_attr">On=
Thu, Apr 13, 2023 at 10:17=E2=80=AFAM Alejandro Imass <<a href=3D"mailt=
o:aimass@yabarana.com" target=3D"_blank">aimass@yabarana.com</a>> wrote:=
<br></div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8=
ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div dir=3D"ltr=
"><div dir=3D"ltr"><br></div><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><div dir=3D"ltr=
" class=3D"gmail_attr">On Wed, Apr 12, 2023 at 4:28=E2=80=AFPM Paul Pathiak=
is <<a href=3D"mailto:pathiaki2@yahoo.com" target=3D"_blank">pathiaki2@y=
ahoo.com</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D=
"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-le=
ft:1ex"><div><div style=3D"font-family:"Helvetica Neue",Helvetica=
,Arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px"><div></div>
<div dir=3D"ltr">I believe the simplest thing would be to wrap jail=
s or iocage in an interface that looks like and behaves Docker-like.</div><=
div dir=3D"ltr"><br></div></div></div></blockquote><div><br></div><div>and =
Bastille!</div><div>=C2=A0</div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"=
margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-lef=
t:1ex"><div><div style=3D"font-family:"Helvetica Neue",Helvetica,=
Arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px"><div dir=3D"ltr"></div><div dir=3D"ltr"><b=
r></div></div></div></blockquote></div></div>
</blockquote></div><br clear=3D"all"><br><span>-- </span><br><div dir=3D"lt=
r">Mario.<br></div>
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