Date: Thu, 11 May 2023 20:46:36 +0200 From: Mario Marietto <marietto2008@gmail.com> To: Tomek CEDRO <tomek@cedro.info> Cc: Warner Losh <imp@bsdimp.com>, freebsd-hackers <freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org> Subject: Re: freebsd on an ebook ereader ? Message-ID: <CA%2B1FSiiNpu0WGGq=F5=W_6uzF_ar_QPYqgLJW0rY7gzj3tdxiA@mail.gmail.com> In-Reply-To: <CAFYkXjmCMamipfcy-nyGmvuPBCZ779O0HYEdPUwYH21tRMqmyg@mail.gmail.com> References: <CA%2B1FSihjpHqgbDso1UZzsZTTCB3DvBNaGN4Sy9t5XGws0MvyMg@mail.gmail.com> <ZFzumA1aihfrDDxJ@bec.de> <CA%2B1FSijFvwvZn4xH4asZQMUueM-1s2xqLZB3i9f1w_eh=ahWuw@mail.gmail.com> <CANCZdfozw6YveEScEp7pNeGZkf7-oQTYug%2BpUoEEqgfnUm4m6g@mail.gmail.com> <CAFYkXjmCMamipfcy-nyGmvuPBCZ779O0HYEdPUwYH21tRMqmyg@mail.gmail.com>
next in thread | previous in thread | raw e-mail | index | archive | help
--0000000000009fdf8505fb6f6ac4 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hello Tomek. ---> In a perfect world we could focus on RISC-V based devices. I don't know any RISC-V based devices. Please give me some examples. ---> it lags behind Linux on new hardware (most likely multimedia capable embedded systems). What's the minimum desktop environment that can be used if we want to install FreeBSD on an old phone ? Are there any old phones based on RISC-V = ? ---> Problem here is that most people think that Open-Source is Linux, but it's the opposite, Linux is a part of the big Open-Source world. How do you plan to come back with the money needed to adapt FreeBSD to make it work on an old phone if the FreeBSD code is based on a license that's even more open than the GPL ? Where will you get the money to develop it ? ---> Vendors provide drivers only for Linux, sometimes in a binary blob fashion. I imagine that here,first of all,you should develop a software strate that will work as an intermediate between FreeBSD and the linux drivers,so that they will be accepted by the first one. The market can't be changed so fast that the big companies will start to produce drivers for FreeBSD natively massively. ---> People are interested only in things that work out of the box. it's not totally true. During the years Linux became more and more popular even if,at the beginning,it didn't work out of the box. It only means that it needs more time to be accessible,due to the fact that it is technically more advanced than Windows. Today Linux is not ready for the mobile market,yet. But it will be. This is happening. It means that the license model is working well. If the industries wanted to invest money for creating even small devices with Linux inside,it is good enough. What about the FreeBSD license ? The fact that it is even more open,it is better or not for the spreading of small devices on the market,based on FreeBSD ? On Thu, May 11, 2023 at 4:54=E2=80=AFPM Tomek CEDRO <tomek@cedro.info> wrot= e: > On Thu, May 11, 2023 at 4:35=E2=80=AFPM Warner Losh wrote: > > On Thu, May 11, 2023, 8:26 AM Mario Marietto wrote: > >> I'm not aware of anyone running non-Linux on semi-modern hardware : > >> thats the challenge. To find the right device to experiment with. Im > not talking about some soc,but about a finished and already working table= t > or phone. > > > > So what's the easiest one to run linux on that's not x86? > > Download SD card image, put that image on a card, insert card to a > hardware, have it running.. and that is for many many various kind of > devices most likely each requiring a dedicated set of drivers ;-) > > The problem we face right now on FreeBSD it lags behind Linux on a > new hardware (most likely multimedia capable embedded systems). In a > perfect world we could focus on RISC-V based devices and provide out > of the box running solutions that would attract people to FreeBSD and > maybe help in development. People could see the advantages of BSD and > consider investing their time and effort in development of a long term > maintainable solution instead quick-win-and-chase-the-rabbit-forever. > > Problem here is that most people think that Open-Source is Linux, but > its the opposite, Linux is a part of big Open-Source world. Vendors > provide drivers only for Linux, sometimes in a binary blob fashion. > Developing drivers takes time and skill.. also requires good > documentation that sometimes its not even available. People are > interested only in things that work out of the box. > > -- > CeDeROM, SQ7MHZ, http://www.tomek.cedro.info > --=20 Mario. --0000000000009fdf8505fb6f6ac4 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable <div dir=3D"ltr"><div>Hello Tomek.</div><div><br> </div><div>---> In a p= erfect world we could focus on RISC-V based devices.</div><div><br></div><d= iv>I don't know any RISC-V based devices. Please give me some examples.= <br></div><div><br></div><div>---> it lags behind Linux on new hardware = (most likely multimedia capable embedded systems).</div><div><br></div><div= >What's the minimum desktop environment that can be used if we want to = install FreeBSD on an old phone ? Are there any old phones based on RISC-V = ?<br></div><br><div>---> Problem here is that most people think that Ope= n-Source is Linux, but it's the opposite, Linux is a part of the big Op= en-Source world. </div><div><br></div><div>How do you plan to come back wit= h the money needed to adapt FreeBSD to make it work on an old phone if the = FreeBSD code is based on a license that's even more open than the GPL ?= Where will you get the money to develop it ?</div><div><br></div><div>---&= gt; Vendors provide drivers only for Linux, sometimes in a binary blob fash= ion.</div><div><br></div><div>I imagine that here,first of all,you should d= evelop a software strate that will work as an intermediate between FreeBSD = and the linux drivers,so that they will be accepted by the first one. The m= arket can't be changed so fast that the big companies will start to pro= duce drivers for FreeBSD natively massively.</div><div><br></div><div>---&g= t; People are interested only in things that work out of the box.<font color=3D"#888888">= <br></font></div><div><br></div><div>it's not totally true. During the = years Linux became more and more popular even if,at the beginning,it didn&#= 39;t work out of the box. It only means that it needs more time to be acces= sible,due to the fact that it is technically more advanced than Windows. To= day Linux is not ready for the mobile market,yet. But it will be. This is h= appening. It means that the license model is working well. If the industrie= s wanted to invest money for creating even small devices with Linux inside,= it is good enough. What about the FreeBSD license ? The fact that it is eve= n more open,it is better or not for the spreading of small devices on the m= arket,based on FreeBSD ?</div><div><br></div></div><br><div class=3D"gmail_= quote"><div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"gmail_attr">On Thu, May 11, 2023 at 4:54= =E2=80=AFPM Tomek CEDRO <<a href=3D"mailto:tomek@cedro.info" target=3D"_= blank">tomek@cedro.info</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_= quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,= 204);padding-left:1ex">On Thu, May 11, 2023 at 4:35=E2=80=AFPM Warner Losh = wrote:<br> > On Thu, May 11, 2023, 8:26 AM Mario Marietto wrote:<br> >> I'm not aware of anyone running non-Linux on semi-modern hardw= are :<br> >> thats the challenge. To find the right device to experiment with. = Im not talking about some soc,but about a finished and already working tabl= et or phone.<br> ><br> > So what's the easiest one to run linux on that's not x86?<br> <br> Download SD card image, put that image on a card, insert card to a<br> hardware, have it running.. and that is for many many various kind of<br> devices most likely each requiring a dedicated set of drivers ;-)<br> <br> The problem we face right now on FreeBSD=C2=A0 it lags behind Linux on a<br= > new hardware (most likely multimedia capable embedded systems). In a<br> perfect world we could focus on RISC-V based devices and provide out<br> of the box running solutions that would attract people to FreeBSD and<br> maybe help in development. People could see the advantages of BSD and<br> consider investing their time and effort in development of a long term<br> maintainable solution instead quick-win-and-chase-the-rabbit-forever.<br> <br> Problem here is that most people think that Open-Source is Linux, but<br> its the opposite, Linux is a part of big Open-Source world. Vendors<br> provide drivers only for Linux, sometimes in a binary blob fashion.<br> Developing drivers takes time and skill.. also requires good<br> documentation that sometimes its not even available. People are<br> interested only in things that work out of the box.<br> <br> -- <br> CeDeROM, SQ7MHZ, <a href=3D"http://www.tomek.cedro.info" rel=3D"noreferrer"= target=3D"_blank">http://www.tomek.cedro.info</a><br>; </blockquote></div><br clear=3D"all"><br><span>-- </span><br><div dir=3D"lt= r">Mario.<br></div> --0000000000009fdf8505fb6f6ac4--
Want to link to this message? Use this URL: <https://mail-archive.FreeBSD.org/cgi/mid.cgi?CA%2B1FSiiNpu0WGGq=F5=W_6uzF_ar_QPYqgLJW0rY7gzj3tdxiA>