Date: Tue, 22 Nov 2022 02:00:16 +0100 From: Mario Marietto <marietto2008@gmail.com> To: Tomek CEDRO <tomek@cedro.info> Cc: arrowd@freebsd.org, Ronald Klop <ronald@freebsd.org>, ports <ports@freebsd.org> Subject: =?UTF-8?Q?Re=3A_The_installation_of_=E2=80=9CStable_Diffusion_web_UI?= =?UTF-8?Q?=E2=80=9D_natively_on_FreeBSD_fails_because_can=E2=80=99t_install_torch_?= =?UTF-8?Q?and_torchvision?= Message-ID: <CA%2B1FSijkc_dtK89iqsDvx4eDwQw0yyp6E8YPpatDCdxAuaY-2w@mail.gmail.com> In-Reply-To: <CAFYkXjkssiMq9YfVj0ixd61WV337_r6GEai-nB3MHY2-WjyqUw@mail.gmail.com> References: <CA%2B1FSihJdXHeHL1pUD3SB6vujhG0M1-9wAqeFwjCS8r4syu7mQ@mail.gmail.com> <CA%2B1FSijaF-W8PJo9GtK0S-4BFtSBhD6FjbPu-ZJLBwQ%2Bcymoew@mail.gmail.com> <CAFYkXjn2deM--tyU9Mpi-%2BiM0ALyePhEDGt9LRY0QW8gJ-3Smg@mail.gmail.com> <CAFYkXjmzrLr2x-DKx%2BY88191fOVQ0EL6rtHiSGP4QMV4VRe=sA@mail.gmail.com> <CAFYkXjm1NayM7EMps8GiqdY5a_qCf=oFcXw9GwVOGJ6rvcG=og@mail.gmail.com> <9f14955d-1072-332e-adc7-26f6fbb80b03@FreeBSD.org> <CAFYkXj=bxE1q6zWxqs8zPjXx78KzOuiYFb1OE-_TREedwcpEyQ@mail.gmail.com> <CA%2B1FSih6zNUZiRMz9NCiSGDtm_2C%2B4JmP80HiPLac9ZVF1LKqA@mail.gmail.com> <CAFYkXj=RhX3Oor4Nss_%2BmxyRoNcrVvfDhBNQw5J1O778rLideA@mail.gmail.com> <CA%2B1FSih6pfjX1HoisgMV9w1j8x%2Bb7HScR7_eiHnMnYDM31zg5Q@mail.gmail.com> <CAFYkXjk1mH5Ji29EXz7-pDOkpigrJ4vChwV5FPKfw7z3LcWjbQ@mail.gmail.com> <CA%2B1FSijRLp48bijme0w30YB0fRjpuinzpBcjRpRMZH-hU%2B3q1w@mail.gmail.com> <CA%2B1FSijkD8XwiH=oDs3v5LmZjuNN_HKa8u88-0d1gmN-pwDRYA@mail.gmail.com> <CAFYkXjkssiMq9YfVj0ixd61WV337_r6GEai-nB3MHY2-WjyqUw@mail.gmail.com>
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--0000000000002a8b1805ee04b489 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" ---> Most of us are in this position :-) >From you I've learnt that everytime you end a sentence with the " :-) " character,you are ironic. So,I should not take you seriously :-) So I'm sure that you earn more money than me with your job :P ---> If you do not want to put your time and effort to do the job on your own, also you state there is no reason to do the job for you, then who do you expect to do the job ? This is the kind of argument that makes me hurt. Even because you seem to have the ability to skip / avoid the argument that you don't like or that you don't want to reply to. I tell this because your next argument after that ignores it. Maybe you are confused and you don't know what's the difference between "want to do and be able to do". I can't do that kind of task. You have provided me with an estimate of how much effort and skills are needed. So,please don't overestimate my abilities. I don't do this to you. I've asked if you are able to analyze a mindset and you didn't reply,so what ? I imagine that you understand that you can't do that. So,why should I be able to make a job like the one you have described if I use everyday Linux , Freebsd as a hobby only ? What scares me is a belief that goes around on the net, which I call a form of omnipotence, in which people believe that others can do whatever they want. I've often found people who say they haven't even gotten a computer science degree yet,but they solve all the problems and they have a job in companies that pay them very well. These are discrepancies I will never understand. What I do know, however, is that omnipotence in clinical psychology is a way of being that is found in many psychopathological serious frameworks. I don't expect that someone will do the job. I've asked,for my technical curiosity, who was the major responsible for the absence of what is needed to make the torch work : I'm not sure if it belongs more to the python or the freebsd developers. I ask this because I don't understand what are the boundaries of the respective areas of competence. ---> Switch to supported OS to get things working out of the box :-) I don't want things that work out of the box. If I wanted to do that, we wouldn't be talking here, because I would be using Windows. Instead I've been using Linux for many years and Freebsd for a few years. This means that I accept and I can manage and solve a whole series of problems that don't require too many skills. Il giorno mar 22 nov 2022 alle ore 01:26 Tomek CEDRO <tomek@cedro.info> ha scritto: > Long story short: PyTorch does not work on FreeBSD at this point, use > Linux version, or any other OS where binary packages are provided. > > Short story long: below :-) > > On Mon, Nov 21, 2022 at 6:48 PM Mario Marietto wrote: > > Tomek,can you repeat the steps you did when you tried to install > pytorch,but this time using torch as Gleb Popov suggested ? very thanks. > > Already did, please take a look at previous answers :-) > > When you try to install pytorch you will get an error you should use > torch name instead.. but there are no packages provided from FreeBSD.. > and it does not build from the sources.. more work is necessary to > update the pytorch in order to build and run on FreeBSD.. looks like > weeks of work.. and this should be done by someone already familiar > with that tool to verify its operations even if it builds.. also note > that it has some hard dependencies on hardware acceleration that may > not yet be available here. > > I would strongly use platform that is officially supported by the project. > > Get the correct tool for the task :-) > > > > Il giorno lun 21 nov 2022 alle ore 17:46 Mario Marietto ha scritto: > >> > >> Oh no,man,I don't think I'm. My job is totally different than yours. > I'm a psychologist. My training has been totally different. In your > opinion, can I make a job totally different from yours ? If it was > true,so,ok,you can analyze the people's mindset without a problem. You can > get two jobs,you can earn two incomes. Why don't you make it ? I like to > play with linux-freebsd as a hobby. I can learn what I don't know ? > Sure,for those tasks that are of low-medium difficulties only. So,I should > even hire someone,spending money. You didn't understand my position. I > don't earn enough money even to live day by day. In your opinion,can I > spend money on that ? In addition,It works under Windows and Linux. So,this > is another reason to not spend money on it. > > > Most of us are in this position :-) > > Most of us have one or two or three projects / jobs to make a living > and then some spare time to develop Open-Source that we need on our > own and then we share the results "for free". Imagine how many new > things we have to learn and how many problems we encounter / overcome > in that process. > > There is no "magic company" that takes infinite amount of money from > thin air to create working solutions based on people demands for > free.. even governments that fund "public research" are taxing their > own citizens.. commercial companies only develop Open-Source when they > have valid business model and funding for it. > > If you do not want to put your time and effort to do the job on your > own, also you state there is no reason to do the job for you, then who > do you expect to do the job? > > Really few lucky people are "paid good full-time salary for a > development on demand" where results are shared back to the public. > Even if, the work must be useful for a company that invest their money > and time to hire folks to develop new features, port software, etc. > > Development of the Open-Source is not free. You can use it for free. > But there may be years of expensive work and thousands of brainz > behind. Please understand and respect that that you are given a > solution for free, but creating that solution is always quite > expensive in the first place. > > Someone had to create the PyTorch, hire people to make it happen, then > the results are shared "for free". This tool was developed on Linux, > macOS and Windows, because there are packages provided. Making it work > on FreeBSD requires work that needs to be done. You cannot expect > anyone to do the job for you unless you care it enough to make it > happen yourself.. or find the funding to do the work for you. Maybe > the company that created PyTorch will be interested in porting to a > new unsupported platform but that is highly unlikely. > > Most of us would like to "just focus" on what we need, but hey we all > need to pay the bills, thus we are all in the same position of making > choices where to invest our time for skills development and what might > be the results :-) > > > > And again : I don't work in any company,I'm not motivated enough even > for "intellectual" reasons. > > Get the right tool for the task. Just use the supported OS and the > problem is be solved :-) > > Most of us are simply driven by a curiosity, on how / why things work, > how to make things work, how to create new things, and we share what > we do with the rest of the world.. the reason we do not know something > is quite enough challenging motivation to get the required skills.. > but hey there are only 24 hours in a single day :-) > > > > Try to forget me for a while and try to reply to my question : who has > more responsibility in this kind of situation where there is something to > do to fill the gap between the pytorch and the freebsd developers ? thanks. > > With the non-technical explanations above I am sure you will now > understand that "you are responsible to make things that you care > about work" :-) > > Switch to supported OS to get things working out of the box :-) > > -- > CeDeROM, SQ7MHZ, http://www.tomek.cedro.info > -- Mario. --0000000000002a8b1805ee04b489 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable <div dir=3D"ltr"><div>---> Most of us are in this position :-)</div><div= ><br></div><div>From you I've learnt that everytime you end a sentence = with the " :-) " character,you are ironic. So,I should not take y= ou seriously :-) <br></div><div>So I'm sure that you earn more money th= an me with your job :P <br></div><div><br></div><div>---> If you do not = want to put your time and effort to do the job on your own, also you state = there is no reason to do the job for you, then who do you expect to do the job ?</div><div><br></div><div>This is the kind of = argument that makes me hurt. Even because you seem to have the ability to s= kip / avoid the argument that you don't like or that you don't want= to reply to. I tell this because your next argument after that ignores it.= Maybe you are confused and you don't know what's the difference be= tween <span class=3D"gmail-Y2IQFc" lang=3D"en">"want to do and be able= to do". I can't do that kind of task. You</span><span class=3D"gm= ail-Y2IQFc" lang=3D"en"> have provided me with an estimate of how much effo= rt and skills are needed. So,please don't overestimate my abilities. I = don't do this to you. I've asked if you are able to analyze a minds= et and you didn't reply,so what ? I imagine that you understand that yo= u can't do that. So,why should I be able to make a job like the one you= have described if I use everyday Linux , Freebsd as a hobby only ?</span><= span class=3D"gmail-Y2IQFc" lang=3D"en"> What scares me is a belief that go= es around on the net, which I call a form of omnipotence, in which people b= elieve that others can do whatever they want. I've often found people w= ho say they haven't even gotten a computer science degree yet,but they = solve all the problems and they have a job in companies that pay them very = well.</span><span class=3D"gmail-Y2IQFc" lang=3D"en"> These are discrepanci= es I will never understand. What I do know, however, is that omnipotence in= clinical psychology is a way of being that is found in many psychopatholog= ical serious frameworks. I don't expect that someone will do the job. I= 've asked,for</span><span class=3D"gmail-Y2IQFc" lang=3D"en"> my techni= cal curiosity, who was the major responsible for the absence of what is nee= ded to make the torch work : I'm not sure if it belongs more to the pyt= hon or the freebsd developers. I ask this because I don't understand w<= /span><span class=3D"gmail-Y2IQFc" lang=3D"en">hat are the boundaries of th= e respective areas of competence. <br></span></div><div><span class=3D"gmai= l-Y2IQFc" lang=3D"en"><br></span><span class=3D"gmail-Y2IQFc" lang=3D"en"> = </span></div><div>---> Switch to supported OS to get things working out = of the box :-)</div><div><br></div><div>I don't want things that work o= ut of the box.<span class=3D"gmail-Y2IQFc" lang=3D"en"> If I wanted to do t= hat, we wouldn't be talking here, because I would be using Windows. Ins= tead I've been using Linux for many years and Freebsd for a few years. = This means that I accept and I can manage and solve a whole series of probl= ems that don't require too many skills.</span></div></div><br><div clas= s=3D"gmail_quote"><div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"gmail_attr">Il giorno mar 22 no= v 2022 alle ore 01:26 Tomek CEDRO <<a href=3D"mailto:tomek@cedro.info">t= omek@cedro.info</a>> ha scritto:<br></div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quo= te" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204= );padding-left:1ex">Long story short: PyTorch does not work on FreeBSD at t= his point, use<br> Linux version, or any other OS where binary packages are provided.<br> <br> Short story long: below :-)<br> <br> On Mon, Nov 21, 2022 at 6:48 PM Mario Marietto wrote:<br> > Tomek,can you repeat the steps you did when you tried to install pytor= ch,but this time using torch as Gleb Popov suggested ? very thanks.<br> <br> Already did, please take a look at previous answers :-)<br> <br> When you try to install pytorch you will get an error you should use<br> torch name instead.. but there are no packages provided from FreeBSD..<br> and it does not build from the sources.. more work is necessary to<br> update the pytorch in order to build and run on FreeBSD.. looks like<br> weeks of work.. and this should be done by someone already familiar<br> with that tool to verify its operations even if it builds.. also note<br> that it has some hard dependencies on hardware acceleration that may<br> not yet be available here.<br> <br> I would strongly use platform that is officially supported by the project.<= br> <br> Get the correct tool for the task :-)<br> <br> <br> > Il giorno lun 21 nov 2022 alle ore 17:46 Mario Marietto ha scritto:<br= > >><br> >> Oh no,man,I don't think I'm. My job is totally different t= han yours. I'm a psychologist. My training has been totally different. = In your opinion, can I make a job totally different from yours ? If it was = true,so,ok,you can analyze the people's mindset without a problem. You = can get two jobs,you can earn two incomes. Why don't you make it ? I li= ke to play with linux-freebsd as a hobby. I can learn what I don't know= ? Sure,for those tasks that are of low-medium difficulties only. So,I shou= ld even hire someone,spending money. You didn't understand my position.= I don't earn enough money even to live day by day. In your opinion,can= I spend money on that ? In addition,It works under Windows and Linux. So,t= his is another reason to not spend money on it.<br> <br> <br> Most of us are in this position :-)<br> <br> Most of us have one or two or three projects / jobs to make a living<br> and then some spare time to develop Open-Source that we need on our<br> own and then we share the results "for free". Imagine how many ne= w<br> things we have to learn and how many problems we encounter / overcome<br> in that process.<br> <br> There is no "magic company" that takes infinite amount of money f= rom<br> thin air to create working solutions based on people demands for<br> free.. even governments that fund "public research" are taxing th= eir<br> own citizens.. commercial companies only develop Open-Source when they<br> have valid business model and funding for it.<br> <br> If you do not want to put your time and effort to do the job on your<br> own, also you state there is no reason to do the job for you, then who<br> do you expect to do the job?<br> <br> Really few lucky people are "paid good full-time salary for a<br> development on demand" where results are shared back to the public.<br= > Even if, the work must be useful for a company that invest their money<br> and time to hire folks to develop new features, port software, etc.<br> <br> Development of the Open-Source is not free. You can use it for free.<br> But there may be years of expensive work and thousands of brainz<br> behind. Please understand and respect that that you are given a<br> solution for free, but creating that solution is always quite<br> expensive in the first place.<br> <br> Someone had to create the PyTorch, hire people to make it happen, then<br> the results are shared "for free". This tool was developed on Lin= ux,<br> macOS and Windows, because there are packages provided. Making it work<br> on FreeBSD requires work that needs to be done. You cannot expect<br> anyone to do the job for you unless you care it enough to make it<br> happen yourself.. or find the funding to do the work for you. Maybe<br> the company that created PyTorch will be interested in porting to a<br> new unsupported platform but that is highly unlikely.<br> <br> Most of us would like to "just focus" on what we need, but hey we= all<br> need to pay the bills, thus we are all in the same position of making<br> choices where to invest our time for skills development and what might<br> be the results :-)<br> <br> <br> > And again : I don't work in any company,I'm not motivated enou= gh even for "intellectual" reasons.<br> <br> Get the right tool for the task. Just use the supported OS and the<br> problem is be solved :-)<br> <br> Most of us are simply driven by a curiosity, on how / why things work,<br> how to make things work, how to create new things, and we share what<br> we do with the rest of the world.. the reason we do not know something<br> is quite enough challenging motivation to get the required skills..<br> but hey there are only 24 hours in a single day :-)<br> <br> <br> > Try to forget me for a while and try to reply to my question : who has= more responsibility in this kind of situation where there is something to = do to fill the gap between the pytorch and the freebsd developers ? thanks.= <br> <br> With the non-technical explanations above I am sure you will now<br> understand that=C2=A0 "you are responsible to make things that you car= e<br> about work" :-)<br> <br> Switch to supported OS to get things working out of the box :-)<br> <br> -- <br> CeDeROM, SQ7MHZ, <a href=3D"http://www.tomek.cedro.info" rel=3D"noreferrer"= target=3D"_blank">http://www.tomek.cedro.info</a><br>; </blockquote></div><br clear=3D"all"><br>-- <br><div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"g= mail_signature">Mario.<br></div> --0000000000002a8b1805ee04b489--
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