Date: Fri, 4 Sep 2020 12:38:40 -0400 From: Aryeh Friedman <aryeh.friedman@gmail.com> To: Valeri Galtsev <galtsev@kicp.uchicago.edu> Cc: FreeBSD Mailing List <freebsd-questions@freebsd.org> Subject: Re: OT: proof that Linux is brain damaged Message-ID: <CAGBxaX=NrLB2mCw4L%2BDgSQTjbzZm92-KuPOQDZDyfc=znmXbEw@mail.gmail.com> In-Reply-To: <790a3043-5bb9-f70f-3bba-aaf96970cc88@kicp.uchicago.edu> References: <CAGBxaXnJmXB5LDvku2r8303571bxgUDEQu8n9HgY3SJ1HJ=YNw@mail.gmail.com> <20200904104811.b08f24d8f0397e77cef01cbd@aim.com> <20200904181205.78cbb979@archlinux> <96896a75-3b65-1e9b-e7d2-5ddd6cc4b111@kicp.uchicago.edu> <CAGBxaXkkxVdVm0=x-ZGTzeOFkVKneydtLPrVfDSenrn6_cjnzQ@mail.gmail.com> <790a3043-5bb9-f70f-3bba-aaf96970cc88@kicp.uchicago.edu>
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On Fri, Sep 4, 2020 at 12:26 PM Valeri Galtsev <galtsev@kicp.uchicago.edu> wrote: > > > On 2020-09-04 11:21, Aryeh Friedman wrote: > > > > > > On Fri, Sep 4, 2020 at 12:13 PM Valeri Galtsev > > <galtsev@kicp.uchicago.edu <mailto:galtsev@kicp.uchicago.edu>> wrote: > > > > > > > > On 2020-09-04 11:12, Ralf Mardorf wrote: > > > On Fri, 4 Sep 2020 10:48:11 -0400, Vlad D. Markov wrote: > > >> When criticizing systemd, I think the criticism should be > > directed at > > >> the distributions forcing its use. Linux doesn't have much to do > > with > > >> it. > > > > > > Apart from the embedded systems you described, it's probably not > wise > > > if a Linux distro diverts from using systemd, since systemd is > quasi > > > the standard init system and it's bundled with at least udev. > > > Maintaining a different init system, while maintaining udev or > > > something else from systemd, for usage without systemd, seems to > > me way > > > to much effort, even when being in favour of Linux. However, if > > > somebody is really that tired of Linux, as the OP is, I wouldn't > care > > > about Linux at all, especially not since the OP doesn't need to > > search > > > for an operating system that fits to his needs. He already seems > > to be > > > satisfied with FreeBSD, so there's no problem at all. > > > > My sentiment exactly. > > > > > > Except for one problem if you use FreeBSD as a desktop you're forced to > > deal with the systemd stupidity because Xorg (and wayland) refuse to > > believe that the entire universe does not use their prefered brain dead > > OS. > > My workstation and my laptop both run FreeBSD, win XWindow, Mate Desktop > Environment. For multiple yeas, and I do not have any problems. > > But I refuse to participate further in this thread for the reason I > stated earlier in this same thread. > You are of course free use your system until it becomes unusable but the FreeBSD Xorg team completely disagrees with you on having to make accomidations for systemd even when it isn't technical needed: https://www.x.org/wiki/Events/XDC2014/XDC2014PedronFreeBSD/XDC-2014_FreeBSD.pdf Same for virtualbox: https://bugs.freebsd.org/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=234878 > > Valeri > > > So it is not academic if you are using FreeBSD for more than just > > a server. Even then unless you want to use plain vanilla Apache then > > you are forced to deal with it to some degree for example even though > > the Java team for FreeBSD has done a good job removing it as much as > > possible from openjdk there is still some weirdness there. VirtualBox > > has not been able to successfully compile anything newer than 5.X > > because of the same problems. > > > > So saying "if you like FreeBSD and hate systemd/linux then use FreeBSD" > > is not really an option due to the viral nature of systemd and the > > laziness of developers who use it. > > > > TL;dr -- Due to many reasons just ignoring the problem because your on > > FreeBSD is not an answer > > -- > > Aryeh M. Friedman, Lead Developer, http://www.PetiteCloud.org > > -- > ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ > Valeri Galtsev > Sr System Administrator > Department of Astronomy and Astrophysics > Kavli Institute for Cosmological Physics > University of Chicago > Phone: 773-702-4247 > ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ > -- Aryeh M. Friedman, Lead Developer, http://www.PetiteCloud.org
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