Date: Thu, 5 Sep 2024 14:16:45 -0600 From: Warner Losh <imp@bsdimp.com> To: Alan Somers <asomers@freebsd.org> Cc: FreeBSD Hackers <freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org> Subject: Re: The Case for Rust (in any system) Message-ID: <CANCZdfoHP3G3YMvpqVwpQZSRQ64pnYhBJD60Dcar%2BBCUaJNL-w@mail.gmail.com> In-Reply-To: <CAOtMX2iCNX5OkdeghnbmcMrO0UYWwm4zfxFSZGznOznu%2Bmh5rA@mail.gmail.com> References: <CAOtMX2iCNX5OkdeghnbmcMrO0UYWwm4zfxFSZGznOznu%2Bmh5rA@mail.gmail.com>
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--000000000000e5e46d062164f8cc Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Thu, Sep 5, 2024 at 12:10=E2=80=AFPM Alan Somers <asomers@freebsd.org> w= rote: > By now I expect that most of you have seen the long list of new > security advisories that just came out. Strikingly, all were the > result of memory handling errors. And none of them wouldn't have > happened if their respective programs had been written in a > memory-safe language. > FreeBSD represents hundreds of thousands or millions of man hours in its current form (depending on how you measure it). It has evolved over 30 years. To get to the same level of maturity in a rust rewrite would take a similar amount of time. But even if it took an order of magnitude less because rust is that much better, that represents a huge pool of manpower that don't seem to be hanging out around the project just waiting for something to do. Where do the resources for this come from? Without enough resources, the rewrites will be crap and nobody will want to use them (or maybe even FreeBSD). The rewrites to date have lost functionality (though maybe not functionality that's important) relative to what they replace. So great, we should switch to rust. But so far we have no way to do that incrementally (other than a parallel build system, which isn't very FreeBSDish). And if we can't even find the resources to do that minimal level of work, how can the rest possibly be robustly undertaken? Warner --000000000000e5e46d062164f8cc Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable <div dir=3D"ltr"><div dir=3D"ltr"><br></div><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote">= <div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"gmail_attr">On Thu, Sep 5, 2024 at 12:10=E2=80=AF= PM Alan Somers <<a href=3D"mailto:asomers@freebsd.org">asomers@freebsd.o= rg</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margi= n:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex= ">By now I expect that most of you have seen the long list of new<br> security advisories that just came out.=C2=A0 Strikingly, all were the<br> result of memory handling errors.=C2=A0 And none of them wouldn't have<= br> happened if their respective programs had been written in a<br> memory-safe language.<br></blockquote><div><br></div><div>FreeBSD represent= s hundreds of thousands or millions of man hours</div><div>in its current f= orm (depending on how you measure it). It has evolved</div><div>over 30 yea= rs. To get to the same level of maturity in a rust rewrite would</div><div>= take a similar amount of time. But even if it took an order of magnitude</d= iv><div>less because rust is that much better, that represents a huge pool = of</div><div>manpower that don't seem to be hanging out around the proj= ect just</div><div>waiting for something to do.</div><div><br></div><div>Wh= ere do the resources for this come from? Without enough resources,</div><di= v>the rewrites will be crap and nobody will want to use them (or maybe even= </div><div>FreeBSD). The rewrites to date have lost functionality (though m= aybe not</div><div>functionality that's important) relative to what the= y replace.</div><div><br></div><div>So great, we should switch to rust. But= so far we have no way to do that</div><div>incrementally (other than a par= allel build system, which isn't very FreeBSDish).</div><div>And if we c= an't even find the resources to do that minimal level of work, how</div= ><div>can the rest possibly be robustly undertaken?</div><div><br></div><di= v>Warner</div><div><br></div></div></div> --000000000000e5e46d062164f8cc--
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