Date: Sun, 21 Jul 2024 14:08:16 -0600 From: Warner Losh <imp@bsdimp.com> To: cglogic <cglogic@protonmail.com> Cc: FreeBSD CURRENT <freebsd-current@freebsd.org> Subject: Re: Long time outdated jemalloc Message-ID: <CANCZdfo_xuJ-8cdrzbJFnKSa7Kimp6zqHZcsYvKL6X9UD%2BF96Q@mail.gmail.com> In-Reply-To: <B-HKTueKXvKbdxpDl9RSPTMSAmxQCYLcAdxBljV63cE_J2dRmNyeltyUXGfVHeGxDBW6ocPWed6MbDooBwUzxp7eJQpZtCj7AXsioaW9e_E=@protonmail.com> References: <JMop194FY0dunvPcvTWd7CqQODh_xgJC_MiZ8meLQg7pbojMWuygQQP4I79oMQrgg598rSvVv36YfUVrWKkhsvrgEPIRp_GGWco3KQcbd-I=@protonmail.com> <CANCZdfoGFbqTP8g-VRXazddp6nvTSZAEGuJka8Yf0K4D9TW6Rg@mail.gmail.com> <B-HKTueKXvKbdxpDl9RSPTMSAmxQCYLcAdxBljV63cE_J2dRmNyeltyUXGfVHeGxDBW6ocPWed6MbDooBwUzxp7eJQpZtCj7AXsioaW9e_E=@protonmail.com>
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--000000000000dce06e061dc77d17 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Sun, Jul 21, 2024 at 2:03=E2=80=AFPM cglogic <cglogic@protonmail.com> wr= ote: > > On Sunday, July 21st, 2024 at 6:54 AM, Warner Losh <imp@bsdimp.com> wrote= : > > > > On Sat, Jul 20, 2024 at 1:59=E2=80=AFAM cglogic <cglogic@protonmail.com> = wrote: > >> Hello FreeBSD community, >> >> After Jason Evans stepped aside from maintaining jemalloc in FreeBSD, >> it's not updating in time anymore. >> Version 5.3.0 was released May 6, 2022 and FreeBSD still not imported it >> into the tree. >> >> There is a pending review https://reviews.freebsd.org/D41421 from Aug >> 11, 2023. >> I'm successfully running FreeBSD/amd64 system with D41421 applied for 8 >> months, as well as many other people. >> >> Can it be reviewed and committed to CURRENT? >> Or, if there is no committers willing to do it, can commit bit be given >> to submitter or another person willing to do this? >> >> It's very disappointing when users spend their time to fill such gaps an= d >> their efforts just ignored by the developers. >> Every year FreeBSD Community Survey asking about user experience in >> contributing to FreeBSD. >> Here you can see an example of such contributing. >> >> > First, thank you for being persistent and continuing to bring it up. It's > important to do that to make sure this (and your many other) contribution > doesn't fall on the floor. > > And to be fair, we're only 3 months since the last update. Still, quite a > bit longer than you should have to wait, but not nearly the year the > original date suggests. > > And this is a perfect storm of "how the project is bad at accepting > contributions": > (1) The original submission was close to the 14 branch creation time. Thi= s > meant that we weren't well prepared to look at it since it is such an > invasive change (at least on its surface). It also slowed the initial > response... > (2) There was a number of back and forth requests for changes, which took > time to sort out... > (3) The size of this is huge, well beyond the capacity of Phabricator to > review accurately... > (4) It's a vendor import. That means we can't just drop the Phabricator > review into the tree... > (5) It's phabricator: this is a great tool for developers, but we have a > terrible track record of using it for intake from new contributors. We > don't have any oversight at all over this tool, at there's at best tepid > and luke warm attempts to look for drop balls. > > All of these things are a terrible experience. I can only apologize. Thes= e > days, we might steer this towards github, but the 'vendor import' means y= ou > really need someone on the inside, or you need to be on the inside to mak= e > that work. > > So, how to move forward? Well, I'd like to propose the following: > (1) submit all the other Phabricator reviews you have open (they are > mostly good, or close to good) to github. Github is being actively manage= d > and will make it faster to get things it. It's a much better tool for new > contributors (and even frequent contributors of smallish things). > (2) I should do an vendor import of 5.3.0 from github, and do the merge t= o > a branch and push that to github. You can then layer on your changes and > those can be reviewed more closely as a pull request against the branch I > push. I suspect that most of the issues are sorted out already > (3) I'll land it via that route... > > And, if the sum of the other pull requests and this are good (and I > suspect they will be), then we can talk about commit bits and such. > > It's experiences like this which is why I'm trying to stand up github pul= l > requests as a reliable way to get things and and the best place to send > people... > > Thanks again for persisting, and also for expressing this criticism that > we (hopefully) can use to make it better. > > Warner > > > Hello. > > I'm not the author of D41421. Just applied the patch to test it 8 months > ago. And recently discovered that it's still not committed. > I can't copy your message to Phabricator because don't have an account. P= lease, > if you have time, help the author in D41421. > Ah yes. I've been in touch with the author for other things, and somehow thought it was you.... I'll reach out to him via other means... Warner --000000000000dce06e061dc77d17 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable <div dir=3D"ltr"><div dir=3D"ltr"><br></div><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote">= <div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"gmail_attr">On Sun, Jul 21, 2024 at 2:03=E2=80=AF= PM cglogic <<a href=3D"mailto:cglogic@protonmail.com">cglogic@protonmail= .com</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"mar= gin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1= ex"><div style=3D"font-family:Arial,sans-serif;font-size:14px"><br></div><d= iv> On Sunday, July 21st, 2024 at 6:54 AM, Warner Losh <<a href=3D"m= ailto:imp@bsdimp.com" target=3D"_blank">imp@bsdimp.com</a>> wrote:<br> <blockquote type=3D"cite"> <div dir=3D"ltr"><div dir=3D"ltr"><br></div><br><div class=3D"g= mail_quote"><div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"gmail_attr">On Sat, Jul 20, 2024 at 1= :59=E2=80=AFAM cglogic <<a rel=3D"noreferrer nofollow noopener" href=3D"= mailto:cglogic@protonmail.com" target=3D"_blank">cglogic@protonmail.com</a>= > wrote:<br></div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px = 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div= style=3D"font-family:Arial,sans-serif;font-size:14px;color:rgb(0,0,0);back= ground-color:rgb(255,255,255)">Hello FreeBSD community,</div><div style=3D"= font-family:Arial,sans-serif;font-size:14px;color:rgb(0,0,0);background-col= or:rgb(255,255,255)"><br></div><div style=3D"font-family:Arial,sans-serif;f= ont-size:14px;color:rgb(0,0,0);background-color:rgb(255,255,255)"><span sty= le=3D"display:inline;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)">After </span><span = style=3D"background-color:rgb(255,255,255)">Jason Evans stepped aside from = maintaining jemalloc in FreeBSD, it's not updating in time anymore.</sp= an><br></div><div style=3D"font-family:Arial,sans-serif;font-size:14px;colo= r:rgb(0,0,0);background-color:rgb(255,255,255)">Version 5.3.0 was released = <span>May 6, 2022 and FreeBSD still not imported it into the tree.</span></= div><div style=3D"font-family:Arial,sans-serif;font-size:14px;color:rgb(0,0= ,0);background-color:rgb(255,255,255)"><span><br></span></div><div style=3D= "font-family:Arial,sans-serif;font-size:14px;color:rgb(0,0,0);background-co= lor:rgb(255,255,255)">There is a pending review <span><a rel=3D"noreferrer = nofollow noopener" href=3D"https://reviews.freebsd.org/D41421" target=3D"_b= lank">https://reviews.freebsd.org/D41421</a>; from <span>Aug 11, 2023.</span= ></span></div><div style=3D"font-family:Arial,sans-serif;font-size:14px;col= or:rgb(0,0,0);background-color:rgb(255,255,255)"><span><span>I'm succes= sfully running FreeBSD/amd64 system with D41421 applied for 8 months, as we= ll as many other people.</span></span></div><div style=3D"font-family:Arial= ,sans-serif;font-size:14px;color:rgb(0,0,0);background-color:rgb(255,255,25= 5)"><span><span><br></span></span></div><div style=3D"font-family:Arial,san= s-serif;font-size:14px;color:rgb(0,0,0);background-color:rgb(255,255,255)">= <span><span>Can it be reviewed and committed to CURRENT?</span></span></div= ><div style=3D"font-family:Arial,sans-serif;font-size:14px;color:rgb(0,0,0)= ;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)"><span><span>Or, if there is no committe= rs willing to do it, can commit bit be given to submitter or another person= willing to do this?</span></span></div><div style=3D"font-family:Arial,san= s-serif;font-size:14px;color:rgb(0,0,0);background-color:rgb(255,255,255)">= <span><span><br></span></span></div><div style=3D"font-family:Arial,sans-se= rif;font-size:14px;color:rgb(0,0,0);background-color:rgb(255,255,255)"><spa= n><span><span>It's very disappointing when users spend their time to fi= ll such gaps and their efforts just ignored by the developers.</span><br></= span></span></div><div style=3D"font-family:Arial,sans-serif;font-size:14px= ;color:rgb(0,0,0);background-color:rgb(255,255,255)"><span><span><span><spa= n>Every year FreeBSD Community Survey asking about user experience in contr= ibuting to FreeBSD. </span><br></span></span></span></div><div style=3D"fon= t-family:Arial,sans-serif;font-size:14px;color:rgb(0,0,0);background-color:= rgb(255,255,255)"><span><span><span><span>Here you can see an example of su= ch contributing.</span></span></span></span></div><div style=3D"font-family= :Arial,sans-serif;font-size:14px;color:rgb(0,0,0);background-color:rgb(255,= 255,255)"><span><span><span></span></span></span></div><div style=3D"font-f= amily:Arial,sans-serif;font-size:14px;color:rgb(0,0,0);background-color:rgb= (255,255,255)"><span><br></span></div></blockquote><div><br></div><div>Firs= t, thank you for being persistent and continuing to bring it up. It's i= mportant to do that to make sure this (and your many other) contribution do= esn't fall on the floor.<br></div><div><br></div><div>And to be fair, w= e're only 3 months since the last update. Still, quite a bit longer tha= n you should have to wait, but not nearly the year the original date sugges= ts.<br></div><div><br></div><div>And this is a perfect storm of "how t= he project is bad at accepting contributions":</div><div>(1) The origi= nal submission was close to the 14 branch creation time. This meant that we= weren't well prepared to look at it since it is such an invasive chang= e (at least on its surface). It also slowed the initial response...<br></di= v><div>(2) There was a number of back and forth requests for changes, which= took time to sort out...</div><div>(3) The size of this is huge, well beyo= nd the capacity of Phabricator to review accurately...</div><div>(4) It'= ;s a vendor import. That means we can't just drop the Phabricator revie= w into the tree...</div><div>(5) It's phabricator: this is a great tool= for developers, but we have a terrible track record of using it for intake= from new contributors. We don't have any oversight at all over this to= ol, at there's at best tepid and luke warm attempts to look for drop ba= lls.</div><div><br></div><div>All of these things are a terrible experience= . I can only apologize. These days, we might steer this towards github, but= the 'vendor import' means you really need someone on the inside, o= r you need to be on the inside to make that work.</div><div><br></div><div>= So, how to move forward? Well, I'd like to propose the following:</div>= <div>(1) submit all the other Phabricator reviews you have open (they are m= ostly good, or close to good) to github. Github is being actively managed a= nd will make it faster to get things it. It's a much better tool for ne= w contributors (and even frequent contributors of smallish things).</div><d= iv>(2) I should do an vendor import of 5.3.0 from github, and do the merge = to a branch and push that to github. You can then layer on your changes and= those can be reviewed more closely as a pull request against the branch I = push. I suspect that most of the issues are sorted out already <br></div><d= iv>(3) I'll land it via that route...</div><div><br></div><div>And, if = the sum of the other pull requests and this are good (and I suspect they wi= ll be), then we can talk about commit bits and such.</div><div><br></div><d= iv>It's experiences like this which is why I'm trying to stand up g= ithub pull requests as a reliable way to get things and and the best place = to send people... <br></div><div><br></div><div>Thanks again for persistin= g, and also for expressing this criticism that we (hopefully) can use to ma= ke it better.<br></div><div><br></div><div>Warner<br></div></div></div> </blockquote></div><div style=3D"font-family:Arial,sans-serif;font-= size:14px;color:rgb(0,0,0);background-color:rgb(255,255,255)"><br></div><di= v style=3D"font-family:Arial,sans-serif;font-size:14px;color:rgb(0,0,0);bac= kground-color:rgb(255,255,255)">Hello.</div><div style=3D"font-family:Arial= ,sans-serif;font-size:14px;color:rgb(0,0,0);background-color:rgb(255,255,25= 5)"><br></div><div style=3D"font-family:Arial,sans-serif;font-size:14px;col= or:rgb(0,0,0);background-color:rgb(255,255,255)">I'm not the author of= =C2=A0<span>D41421. Just applied the patch to test it 8 months ago. And rec= ently discovered that it's still not committed.</span></div><div style= =3D"font-family:Arial,sans-serif;font-size:14px;color:rgb(0,0,0);background= -color:rgb(255,255,255)"><span>I can't copy your message to Phabricator= because don't have an account.=C2=A0</span>Please, if you have time, h= elp the author in=C2=A0D41421.</div></blockquote><div><br></div><div>Ah yes= . I've been in touch with the author for other things, and somehow thou= ght it was you....=C2=A0 I'll reach out to him via other means...</div>= <div><br></div><div>Warner</div></div></div> --000000000000dce06e061dc77d17--
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