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Date:      Wed, 19 Feb 2020 07:02:09 -0700
From:      Warner Losh <imp@bsdimp.com>
To:        Will Andrews <will@freebsd.org>
Cc:        "freebsd-arch@freebsd.org" <freebsd-arch@freebsd.org>
Subject:   Re: Return of config files to ^/etc
Message-ID:  <CANCZdfopmua8LJJV-Z-%2Bb9Gq0z_DYxXJsarwhFFQOBdEiBhKZw@mail.gmail.com>
In-Reply-To: <CADBaqmgT032s38VjZO%2B0dELSLwW16PY-NY2Ky%2Bn3T8Rbn6SHWQ@mail.gmail.com>
References:  <CACNAnaE5kUuJiDOHtJSE357iiFrA2JQbNuEyLh5yZgU98X_t2g@mail.gmail.com> <CADBaqmgT032s38VjZO%2B0dELSLwW16PY-NY2Ky%2Bn3T8Rbn6SHWQ@mail.gmail.com>

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On Tue, Feb 18, 2020 at 8:20 PM Will Andrews <will@freebsd.org> wrote:

> On Fri, Feb 14, 2020 at 4:42 PM Kyle Evans <kevans@freebsd.org> wrote:
>
> > I've organized a review[0] to return most config files back to etc/.
> > Many people were concerned about the mass exodus of etc/, and many
> > have expressed a desire (privately or otherwise) for these files to
> > return- some of these folks represent downstreams or consumer projects
> > that went through the painful move the first time and would happily go
> > through the pain again to restore the status quo.
> >
> > This does mean that we'd end up with a structure that's not compatible
> > with stable/12, but is compatible with every branch before it.
> >
> > If you have an opinion for or against. please speak up now. I'd like
> > to make sure we're moving in the correct direction as a developer
> > community.
> >
>
> Hi,
>
> The original motivation of the change was to make packaging individual
> components easier.  This in turn enables more incremental binary updates
> of the base system, via pkgbase.  Not to mention, being able to install and
> manage a system with a subset of the full "base".  Such capabilities would
> necessitate including config files with the binaries they configure, rather
> than shipping them as one large blob.
>

Right. The files don't need to move from the original /etc to do this, and
never did need to move. so this is not an argument against moving them back.


> Another nice feature that was gained is the ability to install all files
> for
> a particular component to a directory without having to use mtree or change
> to another directory to finish the job.  At least for me, that's something
> I
> use frequently, installing to a DESTDIR for testing purposes, using
> `make install` like I do with every other project I've ever worked on.
> It's just a lot easier.
>

Again, done with proper makefile reach over, this can still be the case.


> I'd argue that, especially for embedded downstream consumer projects, the
> combination of these features would enable much more compact distributions
> and updates, while potentially continuing to use out-of-the-box FreeBSD
> binary packages.
>

Since neither of these features strictly depends on where these files live
in the tree, this advantage doesn't go away.


> The long-time colocation of all etc files under one directory in FreeBSD
> src
> was always rather idiosyncratic.  I would be hard pressed to name a single
> other project with multiple components whose configuration files were not
> stored alongside the source for the program which the files configure, but
> rather all in one place.
>

And people are used to it. They don't know where everything has moved and
waste a lot of time finding stuff moved to a new, arbitrary location.


> One might argue that this is a feature, especially well suited for those
> who
> wish to examine the config files as a group in the source tree.  It also
> means anyone working on a particular component must update files in
> multiple
> locations, if they are adding configuration.
>

I'm not sure how big an advantage this actually is.


> But for anyone coming to the project looking to work on devd or zfsd, for
> nexample, the notion will seem foreign.
>

Those might reasonable exceptions.


> What other purpose do people gain from having them all together?  Surely we
> aren't trying to enable people to copy them en masse, separate from the
> binaries they configure?  This isn't necessarily correct or safe usage.
>

I know where to go edit them. I have 30 years of knowing that the last few
years haven't undone.


> I did review the proposed change briefly.  Although it seems to preserve
> the
> anbove-mentioned build improvements, it does so at the cost of
> significantly
> expanding the search path for all components of the base system.  The
> FreeBSD base build system is already glacially slow & inefficient as is, is
> it really worth making that worse?
>

I would humbly disagree: the change gets the best of both worlds. The vast
majority of the files didn't need to move in the first place.

Warner


> --
> wca
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