Date: Wed, 31 May 2023 14:41:23 -0600 From: Warner Losh <imp@bsdimp.com> To: garyj@gmx.de Cc: FreeBSD User <freebsd@walstatt-de.de>, FreeBSD CURRENT <freebsd-current@freebsd.org> Subject: Re: WITH_BEARSSL: -8112 bytes available Message-ID: <CANCZdfq=%2BB4dPogpPk%2BMnXev5V3M-a7Kx5O2XMoSBJcTY5F%2B4Q@mail.gmail.com> In-Reply-To: <20230531213026.275c4eaf@ernst.home> References: <20230529105854.1903226d@thor.intern.walstatt.dynvpn.de> <CANCZdfo-PojzQrL5ppxSLLfp%2B5f-ToqQD_N3p3aYtEKBodQ7xQ@mail.gmail.com> <20230531213026.275c4eaf@ernst.home>
next in thread | previous in thread | raw e-mail | index | archive | help
--0000000000007806f905fd035842 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Wed, May 31, 2023 at 1:30=E2=80=AFPM Gary Jennejohn <garyj@gmx.de> wrote= : > On Wed, 31 May 2023 12:15:12 -0600 > Warner Losh <imp@bsdimp.com> wrote: > > [SNIP irrelevant text] > > > And no, I really do not want to support 'loadable modules'. BIOS bootin= g > is > > on the way out, and people > > that want to do complex stuff in the boot loader will simply have to do > > that in UEFI or maybe kboot/LinuxBoot. > > So, what exactly does "BIOS booting is on the way out" mean? I have four > computers which use BIOS booting. Three are too old to support UEFI and > the other one I simply set to BIOS booting out of habit. > New computers aren't supporting it. Its days are numbered. It's longevity i= s much shorter than UEFI's. These are all indisputable. I'm not planning on dropping it in 15, but the number of people that are using it is a declinin= g group over time. Time spent making EFI more effective will affect more people. That's what I mean. So I don't want to sink a ton of time into it. > The only computer I have which uses UEFI is a laptop which was already > set up to use UEFI and I was too lazy to change it. > > > There's low RoI on adding this complexity, imho. We'd be better off, > imho, > > making things like the graphics > > console optional since the fonts and code for that free up about 30k in > > stupid experiments that I've done > > (it's hard since vidconsole has a lot of calls into the graphics system > > that aren't optional and easy to disable, > > so I've had to do hack and slash to produce a super ugly result that is > > only suggestive of the final savings): > > -rw-r--r-- 1 imp imp 352256 May 31 12:04 loader_simp > > I don't know if I slashed too much, or not enough since the code is > rather > > hard to separate out, so if you > > really wanted to go down this path, it would take a lot of work and > patient > > understanding to make it so with > > the low end of savings 20k and the high end on the order of maybe 40k. > > > > There's likely other ways to conserve space. We've not had space issues > > with loader, et al, in the past, > > so it's not well setup for subsetting. Though the different filesystem > > support might also net you a fair amount: > > LOADER_NET_SUPPORT?=3D yes > > LOADER_NFS_SUPPORT?=3D yes > > LOADER_TFTP_SUPPORT?=3D yes > > LOADER_CD9660_SUPPORT?=3D yes > > LOADER_EXT2FS_SUPPORT?=3D yes > > LOADER_MSDOS_SUPPORT?=3D yes > > LOADER_UFS_SUPPORT?=3D yes > > LOADER_GZIP_SUPPORT?=3D yes > > LOADER_BZIP2_SUPPORT?=3D yes > > as would compiling w/o ZFS, which uses its own method (eg > > WITHOUT_LOADER_ZFS). Tuning the loader > > at this level does start to get into the weeds a bit, but can offer ~40= k > > savings turning off all but NET and UFS: > > -rw-r--r-- 1 imp imp 344064 May 31 12:11 loader_simp > > you get even about ~100k when you disable ZFS support with > > -DWITHOUT_LOADER_ZFS: > > -rw-r--r-- 1 imp imp 241664 May 31 12:12 loader_simp > > (both of these are with the graphics console enabled without the silly > > hacks to see how much that takes up). > > Without the extras and ZFS, you might have bearssl and lua together > even... > > > > Hope this helps. > > > > This is interesting information. > Thanks! Warner --0000000000007806f905fd035842 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable <div dir=3D"ltr"><div dir=3D"ltr"><br></div><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote">= <div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"gmail_attr">On Wed, May 31, 2023 at 1:30=E2=80=AF= PM Gary Jennejohn <<a href=3D"mailto:garyj@gmx.de">garyj@gmx.de</a>> = wrote:<br></div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0= px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">On Wed, 3= 1 May 2023 12:15:12 -0600<br> Warner Losh <<a href=3D"mailto:imp@bsdimp.com" target=3D"_blank">imp@bsd= imp.com</a>> wrote:<br> <br> [SNIP irrelevant text]<br> <br> > And no, I really do not want to support 'loadable modules'. BI= OS booting is<br> > on the way out, and people<br> > that want to do complex stuff in the boot loader will simply have to d= o<br> > that in UEFI or maybe kboot/LinuxBoot.<br> <br> So, what exactly does "BIOS booting is on the way out" mean?=C2= =A0 I have four<br> computers which use BIOS booting.=C2=A0 Three are too old to support UEFI a= nd<br> the other one I simply set to BIOS booting out of habit.<br></blockquote><d= iv><br></div><div>New computers aren't supporting it. Its days are numb= ered. It's longevity is</div><div>much shorter than UEFI's. These a= re all indisputable. I'm not planning on</div><div>dropping it in 15, b= ut the number of people that are using it is a declining</div><div>group ov= er time. Time spent making EFI more effective will affect more</div><div>pe= ople. That's what I mean. So I don't want to sink a ton of time int= o it.</div><div>=C2=A0</div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"marg= in:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1e= x"> The only computer I have which uses UEFI is a laptop which was already<br> set up to use UEFI and I was too lazy to change it.<br> <br> > There's low RoI on adding this complexity, imho. We'd be bette= r off, imho,<br> > making things like the graphics<br> > console optional since the fonts and code for that free up about 30k i= n<br> > stupid experiments that I've done<br> > (it's hard since vidconsole has a lot of calls into the graphics s= ystem<br> > that aren't optional and easy to disable,<br> > so I've had to do hack and slash to produce a super ugly result th= at is<br> > only suggestive of the final savings):<br> > -rw-r--r--=C2=A0 1 imp=C2=A0 imp=C2=A0 352256 May 31 12:04 loader_simp= <br> > I don't know if I slashed too much, or not enough since the code i= s rather<br> > hard to separate out, so if you<br> > really wanted to go down this path, it would take a lot of work and pa= tient<br> > understanding to make it so with<br> > the low end of savings 20k and the high end on the order of maybe 40k.= <br> ><br> > There's likely other ways to conserve space. We've not had spa= ce issues<br> > with loader, et al, in the past,<br> > so it's not well setup for subsetting. Though the different filesy= stem<br> > support might also net you a fair amount:<br> > LOADER_NET_SUPPORT?=3D=C2=A0 =C2=A0 yes<br> > LOADER_NFS_SUPPORT?=3D=C2=A0 =C2=A0 yes<br> > LOADER_TFTP_SUPPORT?=3D=C2=A0 =C2=A0yes<br> > LOADER_CD9660_SUPPORT?=3D yes<br> > LOADER_EXT2FS_SUPPORT?=3D yes<br> > LOADER_MSDOS_SUPPORT?=3D=C2=A0 yes<br> > LOADER_UFS_SUPPORT?=3D=C2=A0 =C2=A0 yes<br> > LOADER_GZIP_SUPPORT?=3D=C2=A0 =C2=A0yes<br> > LOADER_BZIP2_SUPPORT?=3D=C2=A0 yes<br> > as would compiling w/o ZFS, which uses its own method (eg<br> > WITHOUT_LOADER_ZFS). Tuning the loader<br> > at this level does start to get into the weeds a bit, but can offer ~4= 0k<br> > savings turning off all but NET and UFS:<br> > -rw-r--r--=C2=A0 1 imp=C2=A0 imp=C2=A0 344064 May 31 12:11 loader_simp= <br> > you get even about ~100k when you disable ZFS support with<br> > -DWITHOUT_LOADER_ZFS:<br> > -rw-r--r--=C2=A0 1 imp=C2=A0 imp=C2=A0 241664 May 31 12:12 loader_simp= <br> > (both of these are with the graphics console enabled without the silly= <br> > hacks to see how much that takes up).<br> > Without the extras and ZFS, you might have bearssl and lua together ev= en...<br> ><br> > Hope this helps.<br> ><br> <br> This is interesting information.<br></blockquote><div><br></div><div>Thanks= !</div><div><br></div><div>Warner=C2=A0</div></div></div> --0000000000007806f905fd035842--
Want to link to this message? Use this URL: <https://mail-archive.FreeBSD.org/cgi/mid.cgi?CANCZdfq=%2BB4dPogpPk%2BMnXev5V3M-a7Kx5O2XMoSBJcTY5F%2B4Q>