Date: Wed, 3 Jun 2020 23:56:37 -0600 From: Brandon helsley <brandon.helsley@hotmail.com> To: Polytropon <freebsd@edvax.de> Cc: freebsd-questions <freebsd-questions@freebsd.org> Subject: Re: Minimal skills Message-ID: <CY4PR19MB010470EB8E75DF42106CDD1AF9890@CY4PR19MB0104.namprd19.prod.outlook.com> In-Reply-To: <CY4PR19MB0104DD86F8FE6446AD1BF327F9890@CY4PR19MB0104.namprd19.prod.outlook.com> References: <CY4PR19MB0104DD86F8FE6446AD1BF327F9890@CY4PR19MB0104.namprd19.prod.outlook.com> <CY4PR19MB0104A2C03F4D66A1DA251A23F9880@CY4PR19MB0104.namprd19.prod.outlook.com> <20200604005859.ca438474.freebsd@edvax.de> <CY4PR19MB0104C290121BF756D57B2DDBF9880@CY4PR19MB0104.namprd19.prod.outlook.com> <20200604020051.0c02472d.freebsd@edvax.de> <CY4PR19MB0104DD86F8FE6446AD1BF327F9890@CY4PR19MB0104.namprd19.prod.outlook.com>
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Thank you, I'm minimally familiar with the port files but I know where and what they are, so I think it would be a great starting point. So is this kind of contribution limited to submitting patches or is there some kind of other persistent communication with the "upstream", whatever that means. Could you tell me what this tool "diff" is. I' bet I'll have to learn it myself but if you could give me an overview and familiarize me that would be great too. Right now I already have dedicated a PC to FreeBSD. I'm quite intimidated by the editing of configuration files but have managed to install and configure fluxbox and other simple GUI's. I'm currently working on making it a mail server but am stuck for now. Other than simple configurations like firewalls or jails or virtualbox I find FreeBSD difficult too learn. I'm progressing though!!! I'll work on understanding port files and sources as my next step. > > On Jun 3, 2020 at 11:41 PM, Polytropon <freebsd@edvax.de> wrote: > > > On Wed, 03 Jun 2020 21:52:37 -0600, Brandon Helsley wrote: > You said there is different areas of documentation. Does this > separation of areas just go by the handbook's sections? Please check the links I provided. Primarily FreeBSD documentation contains the handbook / FAQ / books / articles you also find on the web page, and then there is the manpages that accompany the OS install. Ports contain their own documentation, independent from FreeBSD, and usually maintained by the port's upstream. > Could this mailing list please elaborate on the subject of > updating documentation? and what it takes to do this? As I mentioned, one part of the _FreeBSD_ documentation is what you find in the documentation port (freebsd-doc), and the other part is in the OS (/usr/src). For FreeBSD documentation: To obtain a current ports tree, use the following commands (typical example): # portsnap fetch extract # cd /usr/ports/misc/freebsd-doc-en # make # make install You can then go ahead an d work with the sources in the work directory, and use tools like diff to create your patches to submit. The FreeBSD ports collection is explained here: https://www.freebsd.org/doc/handbook/ports-using.html For manpages: You usually use the freebsd-update tool to install and update the "src" component (it should be the default already). But in this specific case, using the most current version of the sources probably is the better way, and this is done using the Subversion tool. Get the latest sources. Then you'll find manpages in /usr/src's subdirectories for all the components and sections. Again, you can use diff to create patches. The OS updating procedures are explained here: https://www.freebsd.org/doc/handbook/makeworld.html Of course you don't need to install the kernel and the OS userland - you just want the manpage source files. :-) Sidenote: You can obtain the most current ports tree with svn (Subversion) as well, but for a first impression, I'd say the convenient bina ry methods are a good point to start. However, in actual contribution, you'll always want the latest (!) version available, and that is what svn delivers. > For a specific area that I'm interested in, that would be the > Network servers, firewall and advanced networking chapters, > since this is what I want to learn. I'm assuming that's what > you had meant about being interested in a particular area or > documentation. That is a broad topic. :-) FreeBSD itself offers several aspects of networking servers, firewalls, and of course the whole networking stacks and drivers; and there are ports that contain stuff, first of all things like web servers. > Thank you for all the advice so far. Now I can get on track > with the right direction for my education. I will make sure > I learn a little programming, learn unix and study some kind > of computer science that supports all the rest. And then of > course continue to use FreeBSD with the updating handbook. If you don't mind, I'd suggest to dedicate a workstation PC or a laptop for FreeBSD, while having a second computer (or a smartphone) for web access (documtnation, mailing lists, or web forums). Start by installing FreeBSD. Set up your working environment. On the way of doing so, you will already learn a lot. Then examine what you _can_ contribute, and decide what you _want_ to contribute to. Depending on that decision, the steps to take (as mentioned above) are a bit different, still they share a certain skillset and tools. It also helps if you read (or at least skim through) the documentation that already exists, to get a feeling of what you will be dealing with. As I said, the FreeBSD documentation basically works with the port that turns input files into a variety of output formats, while the manpages use their own "language". You can easily check how those look like. You can also get an impression of the writing style and terminology used. Example manpage files can be found on any FreeBSD install in /usr/share/examples/mdoc/ where template files can be found. -- Polytropon Magdeburg, Germany Happy FreeBSD user since 4.0 Andra moi ennepe, Mousa, ... > From owner-freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Thu Jun 4 06:23:09 2020 Return-Path: <owner-freebsd-questions@freebsd.org> Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@mailman.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1366532D2B7 for <freebsd-questions@mailman.nyi.freebsd.org>; Thu, 4 Jun 2020 06:23:09 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from freebsd@edvax.de) Received: from mout.kundenserver.de (mout.kundenserver.de [217.72.192.74]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) key-exchange ECDHE (P-256) server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256 client-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits) client-digest SHA256) (Client CN "mout.kundenserver.de", Issuer "TeleSec ServerPass Class 2 CA" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 49cwgv6g22z3csg for <freebsd-questions@freebsd.org>; Thu, 4 Jun 2020 06:23:07 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from freebsd@edvax.de) Received: from r56.edvax.de ([178.5.236.150]) by mrelayeu.kundenserver.de (mreue106 [212.227.15.183]) with ESMTPA (Nemesis) id 1M5xDJ-1jawWR3eEl-007SNa; Thu, 04 Jun 2020 08:23:05 +0200 Date: Thu, 4 Jun 2020 08:23:04 +0200 From: Polytropon <freebsd@edvax.de> To: Brandon helsley <brandon.helsley@hotmail.com> Cc: freebsd-questions <freebsd-questions@freebsd.org> Subject: Re: Minimal skills Message-Id: <20200604082304.fe7d3d80.freebsd@edvax.de> In-Reply-To: <CY4PR19MB010470EB8E75DF42106CDD1AF9890@CY4PR19MB0104.namprd19.prod.outlook.com> References: <CY4PR19MB0104DD86F8FE6446AD1BF327F9890@CY4PR19MB0104.namprd19.prod.outlook.com> <CY4PR19MB0104A2C03F4D66A1DA251A23F9880@CY4PR19MB0104.namprd19.prod.outlook.com> <20200604005859.ca438474.freebsd@edvax.de> <CY4PR19MB0104C290121BF756D57B2DDBF9880@CY4PR19MB0104.namprd19.prod.outlook.com> <20200604020051.0c02472d.freebsd@edvax.de> <CY4PR19MB0104DD86F8FE6446AD1BF327F9890@CY4PR19MB0104.namprd19.prod.outlook.com> <CY4PR19MB010470EB8E75DF42106CDD1AF9890@CY4PR19MB0104.namprd19.prod.outlook.com> Reply-To: Polytropon <freebsd@edvax.de> Organization: EDVAX X-Mailer: Sylpheed 3.1.1 (GTK+ 2.24.5; 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RCVD_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2] X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.33 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions <freebsd-questions.freebsd.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/options/freebsd-questions>, <mailto:freebsd-questions-request@freebsd.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <http://lists.freebsd.org/pipermail/freebsd-questions/>; List-Post: <mailto:freebsd-questions@freebsd.org> List-Help: <mailto:freebsd-questions-request@freebsd.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions>, <mailto:freebsd-questions-request@freebsd.org?subject=subscribe> X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 04 Jun 2020 06:23:09 -0000 On Wed, 3 Jun 2020 23:56:37 -0600, Brandon helsley wrote: > Thank you, I'm minimally familiar with the port files but I know > where and what they are, so I think it would be a great starting > point. I think so, too. The handbook sections about updating and using the ports collection is a real treasure trove. > So is this kind of contribution limited to submitting patches or > is there some kind of other persistent communication with the > "upstream", whatever that means. Depends on the project / port. I would probably check the docs that come with the port and see how they ("upstream" - those who write and maintain the initial program) would like the contributors to communicate. For FreeBSD (as the OS), patches are the easiest way of adding something new; they can be submitted with a bug report and request for inclusion. > Could you tell me what this tool "diff" is. A diff (the tool, the process, and its result) means "difference". For example, if you find a manpage where the explanation for a certain option is missing, you take the original file, make a working copy of it, change that working copy, and create a file that contains the difference (i. e., the diff, also often called the patch) between the original and the updated version. This diff can then be sent to the FreeBSD team, and they will apply it; the next issue of FreeBSD will then contain the updated manpage instead of the original one. See "man diff" and "man patch" for details. Persons who have proven to be trusted contributors will get direct access to the source code repository: they can check in their changes by themselves. Here is a simplified outline of the process: # cd /usr/src/bin/ls # cp ls.1 ls.1.orig # vim ls.1 ... you make your changes ... :wq # diff ls.1 ls.1.orig > ls.1.diff Now ls.1.diff is what will be submitted. On the FreeBSD team's side, something like this happens: # cd /usr/src/bin/ls # patch < ls.1.diff # svn commit Yes, this is actually _very_ simplified. :-) > I' bet I'll have to learn it myself but if you could give me > an overview and familiarize me that would be great too. You will definitely have to learn the required tools, but in my opinion, that's worth doing it, and documentation contributors are one of the most important people in a project. Never undervalue good documentation. > Right now I already have dedicated a PC to FreeBSD. I'm quite > intimidated by the editing of configuration files but have > managed to install and configure fluxbox and other simple > GUI's. That is an excellent starting point. So more or less, you already have the foundation for further work. You can refine such an environment by choosing what window manager or desktop environment fits your needs best, what programs (web browsers, editors, PDF viewers and so on) you like best, and tailor the installation for optimal use. > I'm currently working on making it a mail server but am stuck > for now. Why do you want to make a PC (I assume it is intended to be used as a workstation) a mail _server_? Not that this is impossible - don't get me wrong! -, but what is the reason? I would even say it's probably better to install a MUA (a mail user agent, an "email program", a mailer) so you can use it to conveniently (!) read and write mails. There are many GUI MUAs that you can use, or if you prefer, you can use a TUI (text-mode based) mailer in an X terminal, if that is your choice. But there's absolutely nothing wrong with installing and using Thunderbird, the de-facto standard mailer nowadays. > Other than simple configurations like firewalls or jails or > virtualbox I find FreeBSD difficult too learn. Everything worth learning might look hard at the beginning. But always remember: If you feel learning is hard, that's just a sign that your brain is _actually_ learning, i. e., it does what you want it to do. The brain likes learning. > I'll work on understanding port files and sources as my next step. The Porter's Handbook provides a great overview. You can see it in action with your installed ports tree. You should also understand the purpose and basic use of Subversion (svn), as version control is a significant aspect of working both with the ports collection and the system sources, if you want to do more than just using it to install stuff. The answers to questions like "What do I have to do?" mostly depend on _you_ answering the question "What do you want to do?" ;-) -- Polytropon Magdeburg, Germany Happy FreeBSD user since 4.0 Andra moi ennepe, Mousa, ...
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