Date: Thu, 4 Jun 2020 15:22:16 -0600 From: Brandon helsley <brandon.helsley@hotmail.com> To: Donald Wilde <dwilde1@gmail.com> Cc: freebsd-questions <freebsd-questions@freebsd.org>, David Christensen <dpchrist@holgerdanske.com> Subject: Re: Minimal skills Message-ID: <CY4PR19MB0104A0D479219642A1853152F9890@CY4PR19MB0104.namprd19.prod.outlook.com> In-Reply-To: <CY4PR19MB01041DACEFFEF08ADB096BC3F9890@CY4PR19MB0104.namprd19.prod.outlook.com> References: <CY4PR19MB01041DACEFFEF08ADB096BC3F9890@CY4PR19MB0104.namprd19.prod.outlook.com> <CY4PR19MB0104A2C03F4D66A1DA251A23F9880@CY4PR19MB0104.namprd19.prod.outlook.com> <20200604005859.ca438474.freebsd@edvax.de> <CY4PR19MB0104C290121BF756D57B2DDBF9880@CY4PR19MB0104.namprd19.prod.outlook.com> <20200604020051.0c02472d.freebsd@edvax.de> <CY4PR19MB0104DD86F8FE6446AD1BF327F9890@CY4PR19MB0104.namprd19.prod.outlook.com> <20200604074134.89eb6518.freebsd@edvax.de> <CY4PR19MB0104DC7541A2154B5C435EA7F9890@CY4PR19MB0104.namprd19.prod.outlook.com> <CY4PR19MB01041DACEFFEF08ADB096BC3F9890@CY4PR19MB0104.namprd19.prod.outlook.com>
next in thread | previous in thread | raw e-mail | index | archive | help
>Actually, besides being THE go-to reference on C, it's the best-written C book out there and the most elegant presentation of the basic concepts. I have a bunch. While the bits and pieces AROUND C have evolved, C itself really hasn't. I prefer the K&R braces over GNU, myself, even though most of the 'NIX world is tilting towards the GNU landslide. >Thank you for interspersing your comments as I asked, Brandon. You have shown the whole Project that you can learn and WILCO without complaint! Good coder, GOOD! :D I'm doing the indentation myself. Does your mailer do the indentation for you or do you do it yourself? > > On Jun 4, 2020 at 3:15 PM, Donald Wilde <dwilde1@gmail.com> wrote: > > > On 6/4/20, Brandon helsley <brandon.helsley@hotmail.com> wrote: > >>Writing good documentation is both an art and a science. But, the > author must first understand the language of the subject. The common > language of FreeBSD and CS/E is C. > >>The canonical C book is: >>https://www.pearson.com/us/higher-education/program/Kernighan-C-Programming-Language-2nd-Edition/PGM54487.html > >>Once you can read C, then you will be able to read the canonical FreeBSD > > book: > >>https://www.pearson.com/store/p/design-and-implementation-of-the-freebsd-operating-system-the/P100001308622 > The link you sent me for the c programming language is from 1988. Wouldn't > it be better to use a newer study book? Should I look for something newer? > Actually, besides being THE go-to reference on C, it's the best-written C book out there and the most elegant presentation of the basic concepts. I have a bunch. While the bits and pieces AROUND C have evolved, C itself reall y hasn't. I prefer the K&R braces over GNU, myself, even though most of the 'NIX world is tilting towards the GNU landslide. Thank you for interspersing your comments as I asked, Brandon. You have shown the whole Project that you can learn and WILCO without complaint! Good coder, GOOD! :D -- Don Wilde **************************************************** * What is the Internet of Things but a system * * of systems including humans? * **************************************************** > From owner-freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Thu Jun 4 21:52:02 2020 Return-Path: <owner-freebsd-questions@freebsd.org> Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@mailman.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1D02D333326 for <freebsd-questions@mailman.nyi.freebsd.org>; Thu, 4 Jun 2020 21:52:02 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from freebsd@chthonixia.net) Received: from mail1.g14.pair.com (mail1.g14.pair.com [66.39.4.16]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 49dKHh4dgQz43fY for <freebsd-questions@freebsd.org>; Thu, 4 Jun 2020 21:52:00 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from freebsd@chthonixia.net) Received: from mail1.g14.pair.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mail1.g14.pair.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 63061223D5E for <freebsd-questions@freebsd.org>; Thu, 4 Jun 2020 17:51:59 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ghostyhead.chthonixia.net (cpe-108-176-147-163.nyc.res.rr.com [108.176.147.163]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by mail1.g14.pair.com (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 29C54223D58 for <freebsd-questions@freebsd.org>; Thu, 4 Jun 2020 17:51:59 -0400 (EDT) Date: Thu, 4 Jun 2020 17:51:52 -0400 From: "Joe A." <freebsd@chthonixia.net> To: freebsd-questions <freebsd-questions@freebsd.org> Subject: Re: Minimal skills Message-ID: <20200604215152.GA81674@ghostyhead.chthonixia.net> References: <CY4PR19MB0104DC7541A2154B5C435EA7F9890@CY4PR19MB0104.namprd19.prod.outlook.com> <20200604074134.89eb6518.freebsd@edvax.de> <CY4PR19MB0104A2C03F4D66A1DA251A23F9880@CY4PR19MB0104.namprd19.prod.outlook.com> <20200604005859.ca438474.freebsd@edvax.de> <CY4PR19MB0104C290121BF756D57B2DDBF9880@CY4PR19MB0104.namprd19.prod.outlook.com> <20200604020051.0c02472d.freebsd@edvax.de> <CY4PR19MB0104DD86F8FE6446AD1BF327F9890@CY4PR19MB0104.namprd19.prod.outlook.com> <20200604074134.89eb6518.freebsd@edvax.de> <CY4PR19MB0104DC7541A2154B5C435EA7F9890@CY4PR19MB0104.namprd19.prod.outlook.com> <CY4PR19MB01041DACEFFEF08ADB096BC3F9890@CY4PR19MB0104.namprd19.prod.outlook.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <CY4PR19MB01041DACEFFEF08ADB096BC3F9890@CY4PR19MB0104.namprd19.prod.outlook.com> X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 49dKHh4dgQz43fY X-Spamd-Bar: / Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; dkim=none; dmarc=none; spf=none (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of freebsd@chthonixia.net has no SPF policy when checking 66.39.4.16) smtp.mailfrom=freebsd@chthonixia.net X-Spamd-Result: default: False [0.70 / 15.00]; RCVD_VIA_SMTP_AUTH(0.00)[]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-0.07)[-0.071]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_ALL(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-0.07)[-0.069]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; PREVIOUSLY_DELIVERED(0.00)[freebsd-questions@freebsd.org]; DMARC_NA(0.00)[chthonixia.net]; AUTH_NA(1.00)[]; RCPT_COUNT_ONE(0.00)[1]; RCVD_COUNT_THREE(0.00)[3]; TO_DN_ALL(0.00)[]; NEURAL_SPAM_SHORT(0.04)[0.039]; R_SPF_NA(0.00)[no SPF record]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; RCVD_TLS_LAST(0.00)[]; R_DKIM_NA(0.00)[]; ASN(0.00)[asn:7859, ipnet:66.39.0.0/17, country:US]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW(-0.10)[66.39.4.16:from] X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.33 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions <freebsd-questions.freebsd.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/options/freebsd-questions>, <mailto:freebsd-questions-request@freebsd.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <http://lists.freebsd.org/pipermail/freebsd-questions/>; List-Post: <mailto:freebsd-questions@freebsd.org> List-Help: <mailto:freebsd-questions-request@freebsd.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions>, <mailto:freebsd-questions-request@freebsd.org?subject=subscribe> X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 04 Jun 2020 21:52:02 -0000 On Thu, Jun 04, 2020 at 03:02:40PM -0600, Brandon helsley wrote: > > <snip> I began to use (with a desktop focus) FreeBSD in 1999 or perhaps early 2000; it was version 3.3 on a CD. I was at some sort of tech conference and someone gave it to me. Early on, I could install it; but had no idea how to obtain applications. So, there is minimal skill and then there is almost no skill. One of the first things I did was purchase a book on FreeBSD and read it cover to cover; I see you've done that. Over time, I've learned here and there enough to keep a machine running and how to work around or solve a variety of problems (mostly; AMD GPUs are just not worth my time, so I worked-around by purchasing an Nvidia PCI card - there's always another way). Some things you may wish to work on, in my view: 1) Have you learned to secure your machines for remote logins via SSH? If not, and you have more than one machine, do that because it's useful. 2) Have you learned, clearly, the difference between an MUA and an MTA? See above, since (IIRC) you plan to set up a local MTA. 2a) Setting up your consumer line to host a local MTA? That's an all-the-nopes-ever-noped thing. See also: why Sendmail isn't secure. (note to gallery: I know what you're thinking. Don't even.) If you really want to set up an MTA, purchase a low-end, low-cost instance in a Xen environment. See the handbook; and there are vendors who sell FreeBSD instantiations. Why? That's a topic of research for the user. 3) Can you use a console MUA, like mutt? If not, learn how....it's invaluable. For instance, if you (for some reason) can't use a GUI MUA; maybe the X install fails - what will you do? Employ an iPhone or an Android? Or (shudder to think) an MS Windows GUI? What about if you have a remote machine (or even one on a home LAN that you use for testing) from which you wish or need to send email? IME, writing up a file for something and transferring it from machine to machine is just not the way to go. I really think learning to use Mutt is your best bet, though there are other console MUA choices. Learn how, for instance, to set it up to do SMTP-AUTH via its configuration file, etcetera. Over time, you'll find it's immeasurably easier than a GUI. 4) Avoid vi. Finally, and reiterating, it is very well within the realm of possibility that an absolute beginner can learn, in short order, how to successfully use FreeBSD as a desktop; and the route to more sophisticated use is pretty much equally possible. Ditto for contributing. Hope this was useful; and best regards, Joe
Want to link to this message? Use this URL: <https://mail-archive.FreeBSD.org/cgi/mid.cgi?CY4PR19MB0104A0D479219642A1853152F9890>