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Date:      Fri, 4 Nov 2022 23:14:57 +0100 (CET)
From:      iio7@tutanota.com
To:        Freebsd Hackers <freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org>
Subject:   Re: What is the status of the FreeBSD development process now?
Message-ID:  <NG3hX4e--3-9@tutanota.com>
In-Reply-To: <CANCZdfoS0=FRL_BXfUaauEs5AM8CPNhwe0wSM8FjXjaBDH%2BWzA@mail.gmail.com>
References:  <NG-5mKi--3-9@tutanota.com> <CACcTwYnDD86etzZhsW64t9fGnL%2Br2BXwZ=RDXGiJ7RP54mWfmw@mail.gmail.com> <NG-G41y--3-9@tutanota.com> <CANCZdfquUTHsCUwBttwCvzHO4Ght0-sNHrONmrse4Ug-Z-CZ5g@mail.gmail.com> <NG-HjAl--3-9@tutanota.com> <CANCZdfoS0=FRL_BXfUaauEs5AM8CPNhwe0wSM8FjXjaBDH%2BWzA@mail.gmail.com>

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Nov 4, 2022, 01:59 by imp@bsdimp.com:

>> I guess my expectations were too high. Sure, things has improved, but wi=
thout
>>  a clear set of rules - like ALL commits must be reviewed before going i=
nto the
>>  kernel, base, etc. - the same problem can happen again.
>>
>
> Now I know you are trolling...
>
> Nobody that's has done engineering for any length of time would expect re=
views to catch all problems. That's at best wishful thinking and at worst a=
 horribly toxic management culture.
>
You're putting words in my mouth. I never said that reviews would catch all=
 problems, what
 I am saying is that we *need* to learn from past mistakes by having fixed =
rules.

> What has happened is that there is more review, the commits are generally=
 much much smaller and more people are reading the commits after the fact. =
I half jokingly told a coworker recently the fastest way to find a problem =
in my code is to commit it since so many people read it, I get feedback rig=
ht away.
>
> Again, these things are present in the data.=C2=A0 There are way more tes=
ts than being committed than before. There is more CI coverage than before.=
 There are efforts to greatly expand that. The layered approach gies a long=
 way towards catching issues like this than before. Thinking promulgating s=
ome simplistic rule change is at best overly simplistic think and disingenu=
ous trolling at worst.
>
It's great that things have improved, but without a clear set of rules, suc=
h that nothing
gets into the current branch from a committer that hasn't been reviewed by =
at least
another developer, the problem will just repeat itself. All we need is a "l=
ow", people feeling
off, life happening, etc., and reviewing gets slacked.

I would rather say, anyone who has done engineering for any length of time =
knows that without
clear rules and guidelines and some kind of "safety" system to implement su=
ch rules, all guaranties
are out the window.

All it takes is that when someone has made a commit, someone else has to lo=
ok it through,
provide an "OK", and then it can get into current, without the "OK", it sta=
ys out of current.

This is not a guarantee, but at least something like the wireguard problem,=
 would most likely
be prevented in the future.

Since things have improved, it shouldn't be too difficult to make it a cond=
ition.

Cheers.




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