Date: Thu, 25 Jun 1998 23:20:55 -0300 (ADT)
From: arthur <arthur@col.auracom.com>
To: Marcel Mason {Personal} <marcel@nunanet.com>
Cc: Tim Gerchmez <fewtch@serv.net>, freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG
Subject: Re: How important is "the OS?"
Message-ID: <Pine.BSF.3.95q.980625223546.23268F-100000@outpost.col.auracom.com>
In-Reply-To: <Pine.NEB.3.94.980625132237.11168A-100000@natsiq.nunanet.com>
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On Thu, 25 Jun 1998, Marcel Mason {Personal} wrote:
>
> On Thu, 25 Jun 1998, Tim Gerchmez wrote:
>
> > The
> > reason this is interesting to me might best be explained by a fictitious
> > modern discourse with an "average" computer user (such a person doesn't
> > really exist, but let's pretend they do for now):
> >
> > (1) Q: "Does your computer run Win95?"
> > (2) A: "Yes, it came with my computer."
> > (3) Q: "What *IS* Win95?"
> > (4) (puzzled look from the user, then a thoughtful look, then another
> > puzzled look). A: "It's what I get when I turn on my computer... you know,
> > the start button and stuff... it lets you run programs, I think..."
> > (confused look)...
>
> That is *really* scary, I went out and asked people whose systems I work
> on and your dead right ... that is the basic answer I got most of the
> time.
>
Yes it is scary, and Tim, I feel you could have safely gotten away
without using "ficticious" in your above statement, but I'm sure you
were just playing it safe.
> > Somehow, Unix has to catch up with this paradigm if they want any
> > significant portion of the desktop, not just the server market. X-windows
> > is a *bare beginning*, but if you think our "average user" is going to want
> > to edit configuration files by hand to get the desktop look and act the way
> > they want, you'd have me rolling on the floor laughing.
>
actually comparing FreeBSD to the unix varient I cut my teeth on 7 years
ago (Coherent 3.2.1) unix varients have come a long way. Imagine using a
unix varient that had no virtual terminals, no X and the only way you
could have more than one person using the same box was by having them
come in through a serial port with a top baud rate of 9600.
At this point I feel it necessary to say I love FreeBSD!!!!!!!
> Your "average" user is going to by either a Win95 machine or a MAC, all
> software installed, Internet ready, take it out of the box, plug it in,
> hit the power button system regardless (IMHO) of what other options
> are available.... That is what the "average" user wants, that is what
> MS & MacIntosh provide ..... that's why they're rich, they saw the
> market & filled the void.
>
Unfortuneatly, to a wide majority, the home computer is nothing more
than an appliance, or form of entertainment, and that makes the above
statement very true, and very depressing. Although the up side to that
is that hardware prices have become ridiculously low compared to years
gone past, and that makes me sooooo happy.
> > Those of us who find the OS itself of interest (everyone on this list) are
> > obviously still around, but I think we're a dying breed. Desktop computing
> > is changing rapidly, and Unix is lagging far behind. This is a bad thing.
> > Does anyone else agree with me?
>
> Almost ... At one point I was 50% of the people in a community of a
> little over 4,000 who did *anything* with any *nix. At this point,
> 5 years later, there are double that number .... it's a start
>
I've seen this also, I know administrators that have to work with
Novell, Win95, NT, OS/2 and they find it very comforting to come home
from work and use a unix varient, mostly FreeBSD, but I do know some
that use Linux.
> > Like many others on this list, I enjoy OS's and computers
> > (hardware/software) FOR THEMSELVES more than for what you can do with them.
> > I like to edit configuration files (well... I can put up with it anyway,
> > and am not daunted by it). I enjoy building and repairing computers. I
> > like experimenting with installing and configuring OS's. These things are
> > more interesting to me than watching multimedia clips, playing video games
> > or doing word processing and data entry.
>
> One of the reasons when Windows first came out I said "It's a fad, it will
> die & I'm not gonna be stuck with a graphic interface that no one uses
> or delevops software for". I was obviously wrong .... there are not
> too many out there who want to play with any system configurations, and
> if they do it is assumed that "Power Tools" will do it for them ....
> ie, they (the user) has little control over any tweeking.
>
OK, I'm sticking my neck out here for a good thrashing, but! ... since
this is "newbies" it might be a good forum to make this statement. In my
own personal opinion it almost seems that with the easier net access,
easier as apposed to 6-7 years ago, people that are getting frustrated
with MS's products go looking for something else, and that, in a way, has
made trying a unix varient "trendy" for lack of a better term. Those that
don't mind getting down and dirty with config files will stick with it,
while others don't.
Please, correct me if you feel my opinion is wrong, but that's just the
way I see things, and since this is a list of new-to-FreeBSD/unix type
users I'd appreciate hearing everyone's reason for looking into this
type of operating system.
>
> > Folks... what do we do about kids entering computing in 1998, whose first
> > experiences involve Win95 and playing arcade games using DirectX? Who's
> > going to be around in 20-30 years that cares any more about Unix, other
> > than a few lost souls in their 60's who earn millions a year because they
> > can still administer a Unix system?
>
> Well .... I have my Unix dual boot machine at home, my Unix box at
> work, and a new Unix only machine on the way to my door, my kids
> (well one of them anyway) already uses FreeBSD at home and because
> of that he got a summer job at a local ISP (he's 15 btw).
>
If anyone didn't catch my impression above, I feel that the popularity
and growth of unix varients is on a major upswing. And not to sound like
a history buff, but without the earlier beginnings of unix, there would be
no internet today. (my opinion of course)
> > I think I did a poor job getting across what I was trying to say in this
> > Email (and perhaps made no sense at all), but I hope it generates some
> > discussion, especially among people who use multiple OS's like myself and
> > follow the latest trends in computing.
>
> You did a great job, something I think that many have thought of but
> few have committed to e-paper.....
>
I agree, it's comments like these that can bring out very interesting
and enlightening conversations without causing an uproar, well I hope
my "trendy" statement doesn't cause me too much pain ;) ... as I duck
under my desk and hit the send key. (LOL).
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
arthur@col.auracom.com
In a world without fences, is there a need for gates
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