Date: Mon, 22 Mar 1999 22:07:05 -0700 (MST) From: Brett Taylor <brett@peloton.physics.montana.edu> To: Brett Glass <brett@lariat.org> Cc: "Jordan K. Hubbard" <jkh@zippy.cdrom.com>, advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: FreeBSD emulation for linux Message-ID: <Pine.BSF.4.05.9903222133500.1749-100000@peloton.physics.montana.edu> In-Reply-To: <4.2.0.32.19990322194937.03ee4600@localhost>
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Hi,
On Mon, 22 Mar 1999, Brett Glass wrote:
> I'm beginning to think it's not worth even trying to talk sense to you
> folks regarding PR, much less contribute time or code.
You've suggested the following things that I remember recently:
- that the Linux emulator has been bad for FreeBSD
This is contrary to every person I've hooked on FreeBSD. They appreciate
the fact that its stable AND that they can run the preponderance of Linux
apps that are available.
- that the ports tree should support every version of FreeBSD
I asked if you'd even approached Satoshi or Mike Smith about your idea,
since they are working on the new package system. You haven't answered
that yet. Do you have anything in mind other than this vague, if not
noble, idea, like how possibly to implement it? Do you _really_
understand how the current ports system works? That's step one. Talking
to Mike and/or Satoshi is step 2. And not just "I'd like to have X
happen," wo/ any idea how to implement it.
- that a FreeBSD emulator should be created for Linux in the hopes
that this would make people write directly for FreeBSD
You are the _only_ one I've heard support this. Not one person to my
recall has suggested this is a workable idea other than you. Sure it'd be
nice if every app was built to run natively on FreeBSD, but it's not
reality nor is that likely to change just because an emulator exists.
Companies will say "sure there's this FreeBSD emulator for Linux, but they
have roughly 1/6th the number of installations _and_ can emulate Linux.
Let's just write for Linux." Linux people will certainly not drop writing
for the Linux API just because there's suddenly a FreeBSD emulator and if
you really believe that ...
The problem Brett is that all of the things you have suggested/proposed
have _no_ backing from anyone but you (for whatever reasons), I believe
because they sound mostly like ideas wo/ any real plan on how to do it.
I'd love to see a ports mechanism that supports all the FreeBSD versions
(at least back to 2.2.8), but I doubt it'll ever happen. There just
aren't people to work on it. You keep saying you'll write code but I'm
not even convinced you have a clear idea of how you even want to start
this ports project you suggested.
Even if you couldn't do this, you could, in a relatively easy manner (at
least compared to this nebulous porting mechanism) try to just maintain a
tree of ports that are up-to-date for 2.2.8. You'd never be able to do it
alone, but I'm sure if you asked nicely and had some, say 10, people who
were really dedicated it could be done w/ a lot of work.
As it is I haven't even seen you attempt to fix or maintain one port. I
suggested doing libgtop. You refused that because "it's GPL." I got news
for you - people want to run Gnome (go see -questions or -ports for an
idea of how many people are trying to get them to compile) and Gnome needs
glibtop.
If it's still such a personal affront to you to maintain/fix a port that
is GPL'ed go find a port that you use that has:
MAINTAINER= ports@freebsd.org
that isn't GPL'ed and maintain it. As I told you before, there are lots,
145 in my tree (wo/ any of the foreign language ports), of ports which
need maintainers. Maintaining a single port would be a great way for you
to get a good introductory knowledge of how the ports system works and how
you might be able to implement your idea. Heck Bill Fenner sends out a
"homeless ports that need help" list once a week. Pick one from the list
and fix it. Often times it just needs to have the distfile updated. But
again, you haven't even done that.
Since you've been posting regularly to -advocacy, the only thing I've seen
from you is grandiose ideas and no clear idea how to implement them or
even willingness to do any work as simple as it may be (such as
maintaining a port or fixing it so it will work for 2.2.8).
Jordan hit it on the head when he said you just seem to shoot from the
hip, seeing what you hit.
Brett Taylor
***********************************************************
Brett Taylor brett@peloton.physics.montana.edu *
brett@daemonnews.org *
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http://www.daemonnews.org/ *
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