Date: Thu, 05 Mar 1998 19:19:53 -0800 (PST) From: Simon Shapiro <shimon@simon-shapiro.org> To: "John S. Dyson" <dyson@FreeBSD.ORG> Cc: current@FreeBSD.ORG, jak@cetlink.net, (Mikael Karpberg) <karpen@ocean.campus.luth.se> Subject: Re: Donations. Message-ID: <XFMail.980305191953.shimon@simon-shapiro.org> In-Reply-To: <199803051646.LAA00971@dyson.iquest.net>
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On 05-Mar-98 John S. Dyson wrote: > Mikael Karpberg said: >> >> FreeBSD is not a democracy. It's a kingdom with Jordan at the throne, >> and >> a group of nobleties around him. >> > Even though almost everyone in -core respects and generally likes JKH, > note that he is NOT a king. If there was alot of disagreement with > JKH, he would hear about it, and most likely pipe-down. JKH handles > alot of the things that the other developers don't want to be bothered > with. Given that, he deserves a huge amount of respect, and the rest > of core mostly realizes that the coherent and generally reasonable > positions > that JKH takes have been working out very nicely. We would be alot worse > off without him. > > JKH is very good at this common-sense thing and what he does, and believe > me, he also doesn't take an autocratic standpoint on things. Think of > JKH as our spokesperson, and leader because it is a postion that he is > very good at. IMO, because of that, he has more respect than if he was > a "king" or "autocrat". Agree. However, Mikael's point (albeit strong) has substance. There is no democratic mechanism in FreeBSD. There is a republican mechanism perhaps. I think I read some opinions which would like to see some path of recognition, or control for non-core members of this effort called FreeBSD. This is not an invalid or unreasonable request. My two cents on this: I do not belive in systems. I belive in people. While FreeBSD may apear, or actually be, to a degree, a nobel repubic, I have to say that it is run on much more logic, fairness, and honesty that other software projects that run regular elections, have candidates, trustees, formal boards of dirctors, etc., etc. While their structure is more democratic, it end up being more demagogic. I am sure that the day the FreeBSD will turn to less then honest, fair, and just organization, will be the day it will fold. Exactly because I have no say in whzt part of my efforts is accepted into FreeBSD source tree, or how quickly, the only reason I stick around and try to contribute and help, is because I want to. I do not get paid by the project, I cannot control the project. I only contribute because I belive it is useful, and the contribution serves my own purposes. > DG is in that category also. The -core organization is NOT a mutual > admiration society, but simply something that works pretty well. -core > has been pretty much self organizing, almost in an organic fashion. I totally agree. I think a bit of P/R towards the ``grey masses'' would not hurt anyone. It is easy to get shunted and feel very much ``outside''. Especially, in the beginning. One More Point: I think some people have said the following in several contexts, but we have to realize that this is a volunteer effort, and that most of the major contributors are busy with their work. This means that the scope of certain projects has to be limited, or that the management has to get together and decide what to do. Examples: Fine-Grain Locking in SMP. Unless this forum knows for a fact something the rest of the industry does not know, I think it will not happen. It is simply a huge amount of grunt work, will terribly de-stabilize the kernel so much that it will amount to a complete re-write. It is a huge undertaking. A more subdued, preactical and realistic goal is needed (FreeBSD runs on PCs guys, not on Sequents). NFS If NFS is important, then let's stabilize what we do, plan the project carefully, divide the work up and do it. This will mean putting all other development into priority-1-fixes-only until NFS is done. It is more than one person's weekend job. I'll take a piece of such effort. ---------- Sincerely Yours, Simon Shapiro Shimon@Simon-Shapiro.ORG Voice: 503.799.2313 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-current" in the body of the message
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