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Date:      Tue, 24 Dec 2019 03:02:17 +0000
From:      Rick Macklem <rmacklem@uoguelph.ca>
To:        Richard P Mackerras <mack63richard@gmail.com>, Adam McDougall <mcdouga9@egr.msu.edu>
Cc:        "freebsd-stable@freebsd.org" <freebsd-stable@freebsd.org>
Subject:   Re: nfs lockd errors after NetApp software upgrade.
Message-ID:  <YQBPR0101MB142781B3EF4F85A1A6ED2AE5DD290@YQBPR0101MB1427.CANPRD01.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM>
In-Reply-To: <CAGfybS-a6n=Pkz8iBPj7BQ3=DbFoZRFENmy2wK3B=HzHm5dVWg@mail.gmail.com>
References:  <EBC4AD74-EC62-4C67-AB93-1AA91F662AAC@cs.huji.ac.il> <YQBPR0101MB1427411AFE335E869B9CF022DD530@YQBPR0101MB1427.CANPRD01.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM> <0121E289-D2AE-44BA-ADAC-4814CAEE676F@cs.huji.ac.il> <CAGfybS-3Rvs57=oGFEfii_9a=aWxPr6dEq1Y1LqHbLXK1ZKmXA@mail.gmail.com> <YQBPR0101MB1427F9BE658B9A46C7E08335DD520@YQBPR0101MB1427.CANPRD01.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM> <854B6E5A-C6BC-44B3-A656-FC9B8EF19881@cs.huji.ac.il> <YQBPR0101MB1427F445F1F1EAF382E5131ADD520@YQBPR0101MB1427.CANPRD01.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM> <8770BD0D-4B72-431A-B4F5-A29D4DBA03B1@cs.huji.ac.il> <b1182bbf-fd0b-a23d-1cc4-ddf9513bcb2e@egr.msu.edu> <YQBPR0101MB1427CE52BBA32A888443BFB4DD2D0@YQBPR0101MB1427.CANPRD01.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM> <8A78F67B-C244-45CF-B9BF-D7062669B33B@cs.huji.ac.il> <YQBPR0101MB1427C9D4CF8918F10B6FD400DD2C0@YQBPR0101MB1427.CANPRD01.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM> <AE8F5D6B-E7DA-4AB9-B909-7D362A6A406B@cs.huji.ac.il> <YQBPR0101MB14276E7F9C127374C3E36952DD2F0@YQBPR0101MB1427.CANPRD01.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM> <a33ad299-9ec6-0dc9-0926-32f20cb130c5@egr.msu.edu>, <CAGfybS-a6n=Pkz8iBPj7BQ3=DbFoZRFENmy2wK3B=HzHm5dVWg@mail.gmail.com>

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Richard P Mackerras wrote:=0A=
>Hi,=0A=
>=0A=
>We had some bully type workloads emerge when we moved a lot of block=0A=
>storage from old XIV to new all flash 3PAR. I wonder if your IMAP issue=0A=
>might have emerged just because suddenly there was the opportunity with al=
l=0A=
>flash. QOS is good on 9.x ONTAP. If anyone says it=92s not then they last=
=0A=
>looked on 8.x. So I suggest you QOS the IMAP workload.=0A=
>=0A=
> Nobody should be using UDP with NFS unless they have a very specific set=
=0A=
>of circumstances. TCP was a real step forward.=0A=
Well, I can't argue with this, considering I did the first working implemen=
tation=0A=
of NFS over TCP. It was actually Mike Karels that suggested I try doing so,=
=0A=
There's a paper in a very old Usenix Conference Proceedings, but it is so o=
ld=0A=
that it isn't on the Usenix web page (around 1988 in Denver, if I recall). =
 I don't=0A=
even have a copy myself, although I was the author.=0A=
=0A=
Now, having said that, I must note that the Network Lock Manager (NLM) and=
=0A=
Network Status Monitor (NSM) were not NFS. They were separate stateful=0A=
protocols (poorly designed imho) that Sun never published.=0A=
=0A=
NFS as Sun designed it (NFSv2 and NFSv3) were "stateless server" protocols,=
=0A=
so that they could work reliably without server crash recovery.=0A=
However, the NLM was inherently stateful, since it was dealing with file lo=
cks.=0A=
=0A=
So, you can't really lump the NLM with NFS (and you should avoid use of the=
=0A=
NLM over any transport imho).=0A=
=0A=
NFSv4 tackled the difficult problem of having a "stateful server" and crash=
 recovery,=0A=
which resulted in a much more complex protocol (compare the size of RFC-181=
3=0A=
vs RFC-5661 to get some idea of this).=0A=
=0A=
rick=0A=
=0A=
Cheers=0A=
=0A=
Richard=0A=
_______________________________________________=0A=
freebsd-stable@freebsd.org mailing list=0A=
https://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-stable=0A=
To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-stable-unsubscribe@freebsd.org"=
=0A=



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