Date: Sun, 10 Dec 2017 14:58:29 -0800 From: "Chris H" <portmaster@BSDforge.com> To: "Adam Weinberger" <adamw@adamw.org> Cc: <freebsd-ports@freebsd.org>, <sgk@troutmask.apl.washington.edu> Subject: Re: Procmail Vulnerabilities check Message-ID: <ed196552850fa99bb344d1627942bca3@udns.ultimatedns.net> In-Reply-To: <EC0F9F41-4A57-4A8F-A7B4-67D954182DDA@adamw.org>
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On Sun, 10 Dec 2017 14:49:02 -0700 "Adam Weinberger" <adamw@adamw.org> said > > On 10 Dec, 2017, at 10:11, Steve Kargl <sgk@troutmask.apl.washington.edu> > > wrote: > > > > On Sun, Dec 10, 2017 at 01:21:13PM +0000, Matthew Seaman wrote: > >> Hence the current sendmail in base is neither fish nor fowl: way > >> overpowered for almost all installations, but with significant > >> limitations for a machine providing a full-blown mail service. > >> Personally I agree with his reasoning: unless the primary function of > >> your FreeBSD machine is to be an MTA, you really don't need any more > >> capability than to either deliver to a local mailbox, or forward all > >> e-mails to a smart host. Certainly you don't need anything capable of > >> receiving incoming e-mails. > > > > I disagree. FreeBSd used to pride itself on being a complete operating > > system oout-of-the-box. Lately, a smaller number of developers are > > moving FreeBSD to being a kernel with a bunch of add-on software. > > > > dma(1) does not support a .forward file and by extension vacation(1). > > Without .forward, then those of use who use procmail(1) (subject of > > this email thread) in .forward and by extension spamassisin are > > hosed. > > > > Chapter 27 of the FreeBSD Handbook would need to be rewritten before > > sendmail can be removed. It is assumed that sendmail is installed > > with base. > > Hi Steve, > > I agree with you about the merits of FreeBSD providing a complete system > out-of-the-box. But of all the mail servers out there, sendmail is the most > > archaic and arcane. Sendmail is used primarily by people who are intimately > > familiar with it over a long history, and simply isn’t a great choice for > > people getting into mail servers. I’d rather see sendmail installable > through ports, and replaced in base with a better solution. Sendmail is too > > difficult to configure correctly; we should keep it trivial to install > (i.e. ports) for those who prefer it, but it shouldn’t be our primary > recommendation for users looking for a new MTA. > > DMA is a phenomenal program and is totally sufficient for a large > percentage of our user-base. I wasn’t aware of the lack of .forward > support, and I completely agree that that’s a very detrimental omission. > > # Adam OK I'm puzzled a bit. FreeBSD' motto has always been: FreeBSD The power to serve! but many of the proposed, and recent changes/removals end up more like: FreeBSD I's castrated! IOW Why the big push to eliminate perhaps it's biggest attributes. FreeBSD has always been a *server* out-of-the-box. This should never change. You need something other than a server? You can install almost every other OS/distro. Let's also not forget, that if you need a FreeBSD /desktop/ one need only look at the fork to accomplish just that http://www.desktopbsd.net/ Want to produce a FreeBSD desktop from the FreeBSD source? https://www.freebsd.org/doc/en/books/handbook/x11-wm.html from the handbook. There's also much documentation on all the other possibilities regarding more lightweight alternatives to the applications installed in $BASE. You don't want Sendmail installed by/as default? FreeBSD *already* provides that option in src.conf(5): WITHOUT_SENDMAIL=true and a myriad of other possibilities -- including the addition of things from ports(7)! Please, let's not attempt to dilute FreeBSD' biggest strengths/ value anymore that has already been done. FreeBSD' strongest attribute is it's being quite possibly, the best server installation out-of-the-box -- certainly the closest POSIX server out-of-the-box. Why remove it's best selling point/attribute? --Chris
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