Date: Fri, 7 Oct 2005 15:12:04 +1000 From: Greg Black <freebsd@mail.gbch.net> To: Kris Kennaway <kris@obsecurity.org> Cc: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org Subject: Re: new FreeBSD-webpage Message-ID: <nospam-1128661925.48923@iliad.gbch.net> In-Reply-To: <20051006214904.GB33546@xor.obsecurity.org> References: <b41c75520510060225h2eeecdd8w@mail.gmail.com> <di2s9q$4ss$1@sea.gmane.org> <43455D3E.5040007@mbnet.fi> <20051006204336.GA36557@neptune.atopia.net> <20051006213326.GA33286@xor.obsecurity.org> <20051006213740.GA37835@neptune.atopia.net> <20051006214904.GB33546@xor.obsecurity.org>
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This belongs on freebsd-www; reply-to set accordingly.
On 2005-10-06, Kris Kennaway wrote:
> On Thu, Oct 06, 2005 at 05:37:40PM -0400, Dan Ponte wrote:
>> On Thu, Oct 06, 2005 at 05:33:26PM -0400, Kris Kennaway <kris@obsecurity.org> was witnessed plotting the following conspiracy:
>>> On Thu, Oct 06, 2005 at 04:43:36PM -0400, Dan Ponte wrote:
>>>
>>>> I second that all the way. Personally, I feel that the FreeBSD project
>>>> is doing too much in the way of appearing "trendy" to attract new users,
>>>> and it's at the expense of its existing userbase. Not to mention that
>>>> the old site rendered perfectly in elinks, while the new one is a mess
>>>> (scrolling all over the place).
>>>
>>> Thanks for sharing your opinion, but you forgot to explain how a new
>>> website will make existing FreeBSD users stop using the operating
>>> system.
What an absurd way to read what he wrote. Clearly he meant that
the reduction in usability of the new site is at the expense of
the existing userbase which has come to expect certain things
from the site. He said nothing about people leaving and you're
just trolling with the above statement.
>> I should have worded that differently. By "expense" I didn't mean that
>> the existing userbase would shrink, but, rather, it would be at a
>> disadvantage to it. Though, I don't think that anyone would have truly
>> seen it as the former.
Nobody who wanted to play fair would have seen it like that.
> If you think the new design truly puts you at some kind of
> disadvantage, you should formulate constructive ideas for how to fix
> that.
The problems with the new design have been widely canvassed on
the freebsd-www list, where the discussion belongs.
Unfortunately, that list is inhabited by a bunch of apologists
for the new design who seem to be mainly interested in shouting
down the people who have raised legitimate concerns; or if that
fails, in belittling them.
To list the most critical issues:
* Many important navigation links (e.g., the Handbook, the
Ports) disappeared from the front page.
* The user interface design is dreadful (e.g., fixed sizes for
things that cause all kinds of breakage when windows are
resized or font sizes changed to suit the reader).
* Really boring junk has replaced real content on the front
page (e.g., lengthy list of new committers under the heading
of "news").
Anyway, rather than protesting that the new thing is wonderful
and continually demanding "constructive" criticism from people
who are offering just that, why not listen to the suggestions
and see how to improve things?
For years, I've been sending people to the FreeBSD site to get
information and help -- universally, I've had excellent feedback
from all kinds of users about the value and ease of use of the
site. The claims that the old site was too hard to use that
have been advanced as the main reason for the update just don't
hold water, as far as I'm concerned.
Anyway, I see that the people in charge will do whatever they
want and it will be up to the rest of us to make the best of it.
At least this lack of responsiveness means that I can feel OK
about unsubscribing from the noise on freebsd-www, since being
there will clearly accomplish nothing.
Greg
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