Date: Mon, 10 Nov 2003 17:45:47 +0100 From: Brad Knowles <brad.knowles@skynet.be> To: Rahul Siddharthan <rsidd@online.fr> Cc: chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: How do hackers drive? Message-ID: <p0600200cbbd56e199da1@[10.0.1.2]> In-Reply-To: <20031108041538.GA806@online.fr> References: <20031104192215.GA848@online.fr> <3FA7FEA7.80205@potentialtech.com> <p0600201bbbcdb0e35107@[10.0.1.5]> <20031104201324.GA2654@online.fr> <p06002004bbd1aafe18cc@[10.0.1.5]> <20031108041538.GA806@online.fr>
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At 11:15 PM -0500 2003/11/07, Rahul Siddharthan wrote:
> As I said, if you're planning to spend some time there you'd want to
> learn the language. Just as anyone wanting to spend time in America
> should know English.
I was trying to emphasize the point that, even if you are told
you do not need to learn the language, you should do so anyway -- for
social reasons, if not practical ones.
In my case, my employer (Snow BV) was working on finding me a
place where I could learn Dutch. However, for the first major
customer I was told that it was actually an advantage that I did not
know Dutch, because they were an international company whose official
language was English, and the local office I would be working in felt
that they needed to improve their English language skills.
Whether or not this was a true desired goal of that customer,
this still wound up creating a bad situation for me -- I should have
learned Dutch anyway, and either forced my employer to pay for the
lessons regardless, or found a way to attend privately.
Frankly, in terms of day-to-day "getting things done" in the
Netherlands, I found that everyone I encountered throughout
Amsterdam, Utrecht, Waardenburg, and all the other towns and cities I
went to/through, spoke enough English that I could get by -- everyone
from gas station attendants to check out clerks at supermarkets and
hardware stores, etc....
It was the more subtle social/personal/personnel issues within
the company and customer (where most people spoke English as well as
many native speakers, and some spoke and wrote better English than
most native speakers), where the language issues became more
prevalent on the long-term basis.
There are few conversation-stoppers worse than "I'm sorry, I
don't speak your language -- can you speak mine?" So, you miss out
on all the hallway chat, the elevator chat, the smoke-room chat, and
all those little social encounters that can end up making your life
wonderful or miserable, and can seriously shorten or lengthen your
stay at that employer.
> This is equally true of the US (at least, in my experience it is true of
> academic visas, and I have been told it's true also for H-1B visas).
As bad as the process is over here, I have been told by many
people that the process in the US is even worse. More's the pity.
> I imagine most countries have similar rules.
Sadly, that is likely to be true.
>> and requires working through your embassy in the local country plus
>
> I doubt this
I had to work through the local US Embassy for my original work
permit paperwork.
>> the local country's embassy in your official country of citizenship,
>> etc....
>
> That's pretty obvious, who else would you go to?
I was making the point that you have to coordinate things through
multiple offices, in multiple countries (multiple >= 2).
--
Brad Knowles, <brad.knowles@skynet.be>
"They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary
safety deserve neither liberty nor safety."
-Benjamin Franklin, Historical Review of Pennsylvania.
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!w--- O- M++ V PS++(+++) PE- Y+(++) PGP>+++ t+(+++) 5++(+++) X++(+++) R+(+++)
tv+(+++) b+(++++) DI+(++++) D+(++) G+(++++) e++>++++ h--- r---(+++)* z(+++)
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