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Date:      Wed, 14 Feb 2001 11:08:00 -0500
From:      Mikel King <mikel@ocsinternet.com>
To:        Josh Paetzel <jpaetzel@hutchtel.net>
Cc:        Seth <seth@psychotic.aberrant.org>, Kent Stewart <kstewart@urx.com>, mij@osdn.com, freebsd-doc@FreeBSD.ORG
Subject:   Re: Web page suggestion
Message-ID:  <3A8AAD60.A48580CF@ocsinternet.com>
References:  <20010213104922.A70178@psychotic.aberrant.org> <20010213125007.B375@guinness.osdn.com> <3A898E22.39A43C02@urx.com> <20010213145515.B1203@guinness.osdn.com> <3A89AB42.B5F0E207@urx.com> <20010213171035.B70575@psychotic.aberrant.org> <00a201c09628$74fd7600$6100000a@vladsempire.net>

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Ok I've had about as much as I can stand on this. If Seth wants to make
it easier by throwing together a quick html page; then so be it. I mean
honetsly I doubt very seriously most of us who currently use any
alternative OS actually sat down and read the manual even one time let
alone a couple of times prior to attempting to install it (if I did my
VCR wouldn't be flashing 12:00 all the time). Why don't we make everyone
fill out a really long form and submitt a DNA sample prior to allowing
them to have access to the system.

Really this sounds like a nice idea. I happen to have the pleasure of
wirking with some very competent engineers and I can honestly attest that
they've been put by this proceedure. Let's face it we live in an instant
gratification based society; yes it's sad I know but it's definately
true. Seriously what can it hurt to see what this guy is offering? Hell
he's doing all the work...

Ok I've had my $0.01

cheers,
mikel

PS: Seth if you want a place to toss this thing up email me...


Josh Paetzel wrote:

> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Seth" <seth@psychotic.aberrant.org>
> To: "Kent Stewart" <kstewart@urx.com>
> Cc: <mij@osdn.com>; <freebsd-doc@FreeBSD.ORG>
> Sent: Tuesday, February 13, 2001 4:10 PM
> Subject: Re: Web page suggestion
>
> > What I see happening is this: people come to the website, but find
> there's
> > no one link that tells them what to get and how to get it.  There
> are plenty
> > of places that explain both of these things, but they're in
> different parts
> > of the site.  What I'm proposing is to bring them together, so that
> an
> > impatient prospective user can see, at a glance, what the latest
> version is
> > (IMHO, this should be on the main page as well), find out where to
> purchase
> > a copy, download the tools necessary to install over a network or
> burn
> > an install ISO, and find the necessary documentation to guide
> him/her
> > through the process.  Again, all of this is available today -- but
> it
> > requires wading through the site to find it, and some time on the
> user's
> > part to find all of it.  Whether or not we want users who won't take
> > the time to hunt for the information notwithstanding, we should make
> > it as simple as possible to find all the information on "what,
> where,
> > and how".
> >
> > Don't change the site or its contents; just consolidate some of the
> links
> > on another page that's highlighted from the main page.  Give me a
> few days
> > to come up with an example, but I'll beg your forgiveness in advance
> for
> > my bad HTML.
> >
> > Seth.
> >
> >
>
> <rant>
>
> I don't think that we need to encourage users that don't want to
> "wade" through the three links on the website to get to the
> installation instructions.  I think someone who is going to have a
> good experience with FBSD is someone who will read the entire handbook
> a couple of times before trying an install.  Someone who wants to be
> able to figure things out for themselves.  FreeBSD has a steep
> learning curve, and we might as well let people know that right away.
> I installed FreeBSD in 1996, and I didn't have a clue about unix.  I
> didn't know anything.  It took me almost a year to be able to do
> anything with it at all.  I don't think that it is fair to people to
> give them the impression that FreeBSD is super user friendly.  (By
> that I mean, you don't need to know anything to use it.  Just point
> and click, baby.)  There is windows and various linux distros for
> that.
>
> Josh
>
> </rant>
>
> > History truncated a bit....
> > On Tue, Feb 13, 2001 at 01:46:42PM -0800, Kent Stewart wrote:
> > >
> > >
> > > Jim Mock wrote:
> > > >
> > > > On Tue, 13 Feb 2001 at 11:42:26 -0800, Kent Stewart wrote:
> > > > > Jim Mock wrote:
> > > > > > to click the very easily labeled links, they're surely not
> going to
> > > > > > bother reading any of the install docs and will have an
> installation
> > > > > > experience similar to trying to ram their head through a
> brick wall.
> > > > >
> > > > > Part of the problem is that when they get to the "Handbook
> Chapter on
> > > > > Obtaining FreeBSD", they are presented with Appendix A. To a
> newbie,
> > > > > Appendix A is a series of TLA's that are completely giberish
> until
> > > > > they have been using FreeBSD for a while. There isn't a
> chapter on
> > > > > obtaining FreeBSD and there also aren't any instructions.
> Using FTP to
> > > > > download an iso or the bin files would be a section by itself.
> The
> > > > > closest I have seen is Dan's web page at
> > > > > http://www.freebsddiary.org/read.html. I don't think a newbie
> can use
> > > > > CVS or CTM to install FreeBSD. So, you have a series of
> choices that
> > > > > don't make any sense and more than half of them don't apply.
> > > >
> > > > I think you're talking about a whole different situation here.
> I'm
> > > > talking about if you go to http://www.FreeBSD.org/ and look
> under the
> > > > "Easy to install" header, you'll see a link that says "these
> > > > directions".  That takes you to the install chapter of the
> handbook,
> > > > which then takes you to the floppy download and creation.
> > > >
> > > > I'm guessing you're talking about the "Getting FreeBSD" link
> under
> > > > "Software" on the bar on the left side of the site.  This should
> also
> > > > point to the handbook's install chapter which explains getting
> the
> > > > floppies.  If no one disagrees, I'll change it to do so.
> > >
> > > Yes, that is the link I was talking about and the one I think
> people
> > > are getting lost on.
> > >
> > > Kent
> > >
> > > >
> > > > - jim
> > > >
> > > > --
> > > > jim mock <mij@osdn.com>     O|S|D|N      open source development
> network
> > > > http://soupnazi.org/                  http://osdn.com/ |
> jim@FreeBSD.org
> > >
> > > --
> > > Kent Stewart
> > > Richland, WA
> > >
> > > mailto:kbstew99@hotmail.com
> > > http://kstewart.urx.com/kstewart/index.html
> > > FreeBSD News http://daily.daemonnews.org/
> >
> >
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> >
>
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