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Date:      Thu, 22 Feb 2001 16:29:25 -0600
From:      Mike Meyer <mwm@mired.org>
To:        Terry Lambert <tlambert@primenet.com>
Cc:        abgoeree@uwnet.nl, chat@FreeBSD.ORG
Subject:   Re: SPAM was: (OT: [REJECTED MAIL]????????)
Message-ID:  <14997.37573.925224.981148@guru.mired.org>
In-Reply-To: <200102222206.PAA26443@usr05.primenet.com>
References:  <14997.31070.299908.592001@guru.mired.org> <200102222206.PAA26443@usr05.primenet.com>

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Terry Lambert <tlambert@primenet.com> types:
> > I'd agree that it's upside down, but it's also the way spam works on
> > all those other media. You have to ask to have your address taken off
> > their phone list or junk mail list. Of course, just asking to be
> > removed isn't enough for SPAM (and has been shown to get you put on
> > spam lists in some cases); you have to complain in such a way that
> > the spammer gets interfered with.
> I have a list of 6 that I like to do:

All good tactics.

> 1)	ALWAYS call the 1-800 number; be very polite.  The more
> 	polite you are, the longer they will talk with you, and
> 	the higher their WATS line costs will be.  Let them know
> 	that they have made a grave business error, and suggest
> 	that whoever sold them the service should be legally
> 	responsible for not warning them about the backlash they
> 	will have undobtedly been subjected to by now.
> 

Many of them are just automated machine that want a number and
address. Letting the phone sit for a while will also drive their WATS
line cost up as well.

During the Sprint "Fridays Free" campaign, I'd spend a couple of hours
on Fridays calling the non-800 numbers as well.

> Then there's the purely vindictive, which no one would ever do:
> 10)	If their ISP won't do anything about them, do an altavista
> 	search for "unsubscribe"; altruistically protect their email
> 	from the same act that annoyed you in the first place, and
> 	unsubscribe them from all the SPAM lists that exist.  If you
> 	did this a lot, you might even have a libhttp client that
> 	could (after a while) hit several hundred of these with one
> 	command line command...

You could also just subscribe their email address to a list of *your*
choice. After all, they seem to think putting people on email lists
without their permission is acceptable. My favorite would be a
news.answers digest, as they could clearly have questions they need
answered.

> Then there's the obvious nose-thumbing:
> 7)	If their email address is with an intolerant ISP, get the ISP
> 	to shut it down.

This can be automated, and is the point of the "Complain" button I
suggested. The problem with all of these actions is that they're being
done by a minute fraction of the users on the net. Evidence (i.e. -
the infamouse green card spam) indicates that even 100 complaints per
valid response is acceptable to spammers. Typical marketing numbers
indicate that a 1% positive response is acceptable when the spammer
actually pays for the message. The conlusion would seem to be that to
have a noticable effect on spam, you need to get a *major* negative
response. Hence you need a large majority of users to hit "Complain"
instead of just "Delete".

	<mike
--
Mike Meyer <mwm@mired.org>			http://www.mired.org/home/mwm/
Independent WWW/Perforce/FreeBSD/Unix consultant, email for more information.

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