Date: Sat, 11 Aug 2001 17:02:57 -0700 From: Terry Lambert <tlambert2@mindspring.com> To: Mike Smith <msmith@freebsd.org> Cc: Matt Dillon <dillon@earth.backplane.com>, Kazutaka YOKOTA <yokota@zodiac.mech.utsunomiya-u.ac.jp>, Sean Kelly <smkelly@zombie.org>, current@freebsd.org Subject: Re: FreeBSD's aggressive keyboard probe/attach Message-ID: <3B75C7B1.FF2E739E@mindspring.com> References: <200108112135.f7BLZEb01968@mass.dis.org>
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Mike Smith wrote: > > > :Finally, most keyboard/mouse/monitor switches don't work with > > :FreeBSD; > > This is actually not true. I'd doubt that you've even tried many of them. Boy, you are on one about me... I have tried 5 switches. At ClickArray, we have a large number of Belkin Omniview switches. I have one with firmware version 1.9 at my desk, and freqiently use one with firmware version 1.6 in our lab, with the results I have described. I have also used three other brands of "smart" switch with FreeBSD. I am typing this from a machine connected to a "dumb" QVS switch. ...And you are ignoring the major point, which is that FreeBSD should work with _all hardware Windows works with_, and that in doing so, _it should work at leasty as well or better_. > The Belkin switch is hardly the "best" out there; it's also the only KVM > switch that I'm aware of that had problems with FreeBSD, and even then > only because their QC is so poor that they managed to ship the product > with the ROMs _reversed_. > > Not that it needs stating, but I've used FreeBSD with a wide range of KVM > switches over the years; I'm writing this through an 8-port Cybex, for > example. This switch emulates the keyboard controller to the point that it looks as if a keyboard is present at all times to the connected system, even if it's not. People who run *Free*BSD are going to run it on cheaper equipment; evidence the amount of effort that has gone into ATA/IDE support. > > :Belkin went out of its way to support FreeBSD specifically, > > :actually: their firmware version 1.9 fixes the local wiring > > :switches, so that they can pass FreeBSD's aggressive probe, even > > :if the FreeBSD mouse/keyboard is _not_ selected. > > Gosh. How painful that we actually expect the hardware to behave like, > well, hardware. Windows doesn't have the problem on the same hardware. Therefore it is not a hardware problem, since it can be resolved in software. If you don't like the fact that software is expected to make up for hardware deficiencies, well, that's a hard fact of life in the software business (e.g. I recently saw a problem with the board being depopulated of the wrong serial port, and the front panel bezel's and the cutouts of the metal cases matching the depopulated board -- which meant that software had to do the COM1/COM2 switcheroo, to make up for a hardware deficiency). To put it another way: it is the _job_ of software to make up for bad hardware design. > > :For PC hardware, FreeBSD should use the BIOS (it can, now: the > > :boot loader does, with the caveat that old style keyboards can > > :be used, but are not autodetected properly by some BIOS; see the > > :serial console notes for the /boot.config "-P" flag in the FreeBSD > > :handbook); for the Alpha and other hardware, it should use the > > :local firmware (obviously). > > You are smoking crack again. "Use the BIOS" for what? Keyboard input? > Get real. For hardware probe, which occurs at PSOT time anyway, or DOS or Windows would not be able to make a BIOS call to ask if the hardware were there. There's no good reason that FreeBSD should actively probe for the keyboard, when the BIOS has already done the work in a way that is specific to the motherboard, and unlikely to cause a problem with things like hardware switches. For example, FreeBSD is the only thing that things it doesn't have a keyboard in the QVM case. > > This has been a pet peeve of mine too. It is an unbelievably annoying > > trait of FreeBSD (the keyboard problem), and the mouse problem is also > > quite annoying. > > "The keyboard problem". "The mouse problem". "The Jewish problem". > > Yeesh. Yeesh yourself. The problem is with FreeBSD. If hardware were perfect, we could dike out all of the active probe drivers (e.g. LANCE Ethernet) and all ISA devices. Put it another way: should FreeBSD snub hardware because "it's not up to our standards, even though it can be made to work with software"? I guess I'll wait for your commits to dike out the "F00F" bug workaround and the CMD640 IDE controller interrupt problem, in answer... -- Terry To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-current" in the body of the message
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