Date: Sat, 23 May 2015 09:32:35 -0500 From: Pedro Giffuni <pfg@FreeBSD.org> To: Bryan Drewery <bdrewery@FreeBSD.org>, Oliver Pinter <oliver.pinter@hardenedbsd.org>, Shawn Webb <shawn.webb@hardenedbsd.org>, freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Subject: Re: ASLR work into -HEAD ? Message-ID: <55608F83.3000009@FreeBSD.org> In-Reply-To: <555FBE83.6080103@FreeBSD.org> References: <555CADB6.202@FreeBSD.org> <CAPQ4fftbUUSMHYXjOD-yO0ZzxdKwXzd5LA5AycrEyKMT3o63xw@mail.gmail.com> <555CC369.1030206@FreeBSD.org> <555FBE83.6080103@FreeBSD.org>
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On 05/22/15 18:40, Bryan Drewery wrote: > On 5/20/2015 12:24 PM, Pedro Giffuni wrote: >> My claim is that the majority of "professional" breachers and >> governments already have ASLR workarounds pre-coded and ready >> to launch. Finding an exploit is more difficult than beating >> ASLR so they are not going to hint everyone that they have >> an exploit until they can take all the linux/windows/MacOSX >> at the same time. >> >> The cost for the NSA and/or anonymous to step on >> ASLR is zero. > This sort of argument easily turns into "why bother with security?". I don't think you can blame me of that since I proposed, and am actually mentoring, a project to add yet another security layer (which is hopefully zero-cost). > Please be careful with it. Every layer and mitigation helps. The real > world is not just NSA or China. It's also full of script kiddies. Should > we just stop using SSL because NSA might have cracked it? Should we just > hand over root ssh keys to China because they probably have it all > hacked anyway? Should we just give up since billions of dollars pour > into security breaking research? Should I just post my CC here since > it's surely leaked from the hundreds of places I use it at anyway? No. I think there is a real danger that just because we add something like ASLR, someone will think they are actually protected. AFAICT there is not even one attack today that can be prevented by ASLR. Even then, it might be worth it, but I just don't find acceptable any performance hit even when turned off. > I've had very basic security checks, that could be easily circumvented, > stop actual script kiddies before. Had they persisted longer I would > have been in major trouble. If I explained what it is you would surely > laugh it off and tell me to not bother. Well it worked. ASLR has its > place too. > The fact that SONY pictures was breached in, doesn't mean I am turning off my firewall, but I won't be deploying anything based on enigma, just because "it's better than nothing". Pedro.
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