Date: Wed, 29 Mar 2000 20:54:34 -0500 From: "C J Michaels" <cjm2@earthling.net> To: "Didier Derny" <didier@omnix.net>, "Jordan K. Hubbard" <jkh@zippy.cdrom.com>, "Martin Cracauer" <cracauer@cons.org>, <mo@servo.ccr.org> Cc: <freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.ORG> Subject: RE: Let 3.x die ASAP? Message-ID: <NDBBILKDCLLECBCLPMBICEBJCAAA.cjm2@earthling.net> In-Reply-To: <Pine.BSF.3.96.1000329145706.13503A-100000@omnix.net>
next in thread | previous in thread | raw e-mail | index | archive | help
Ok, I'm sorry if this is long, and off topic for the list, this will be my only posting. I've condensed all of my replies to this discussion into this one message, so please skim through the whole thing. ===== Didier (and others): I for one, have been running 3.x-STABLE since it came out. I have had _1_ kernel panic in that whole time, and that kernel panic was _my_ fault. I have had nothing but stability with my 3.x-STABLE system. You'll find that there are MANY people who have had nothing but stability from their 3.X-STABLE systems. Judging the stability of 3.x by the postings in this list is inaccurate. The purpose of this list is to help with problems/questions/etc... Of course people aren't going to post daily "my 3.x system works great, thanks!". It's a waste of bandwidth. You're complaining that a given release of 3.x isn't stable, but yet you complain that it is in constant development. If a given release of -STABLE has a genuine stability issue, it gets fixed, and committed. So yes it is constantly developing. Would you prefer that bug fixes were just boxed up and released only once a year? Would you prefer that they were not fixed at all? There are several small points that several people in this discussion need to come to terms with: 1. No OS is ever 100% bug free. It's not humanly possible. 2. STABLE != STATIC. Given #1 -STABLE needs to be in a constant state of change because as bugs are found, they are fixed and committed. This doesn't mean untested developmental code, just (mainly) fixes. 3. -CURRENT is where the new and developmental code goes. It is a testing ground for new features and developements, it is not for those looking for stability. 4. No one is forcing anyone to do anything. If you are happy with 2.1.2 then keep running it. If your 3.2-BETA is as solid as a rock, keep running it. If you install an x.0 release of _ANY_ software and expect it to be perfect in every way, you are deluding yourself. ===== Developers: Yes, this is a FREE OS, that is FREEly available, and is developed (mainly) by people giving their FREE time. Despite that, if 90% of users want the log messages in pig-latin, but the core team feels it's a stupid idea, how do you think users will react? They will eventually find an OS that allow them to have log messages in pig-latin. Just shrugging your shoulders and saying "The OS is FREE, so deal with it" isn't going to keep that user base around. ===== Martin: An addendum to the above note. I realize that developement on the 3.x branch many not be interesting or exciting anymore, and you would like to move on. You do need to consider your users here as well. It stands to reason that a good number of active FreeBSD users are still on the 3.x branch. I would venture to guess more than 50%. When I say active, I do not mean those people that are still running 2.2.x on a production machine that hasn't been rebootedn 2 years. Do you truly expect the majority (50% or more) of said users to jump to 4.0 as soon as it's released? Just because someone (anyone) says it's good. I realize that 4.0 is probably one of the most stable x.0 releases of ANYTHING in the world (I've read Jordan's posts). But it's still a x.0 release, and shouldn't (in my mind) hold the title of -STABLE until the shake down leading up to 4.1. Until such time 3.x-STABLE should be actively supported. If you force people down a path they don't want to go, they will resist. You will be driving more people away than you will be helping. ===== Please don't take this as a complaint, just a comment. I am very happy with the direction FreeBSD is going right now and actively promote it. For the record I am running 3.4-STABLE on my "production" machine and am currenlty playing/learning/testing/beating/breaking RELENG_4 on a spare machine. I may move to 4.x before 4.1 comes out, I may not, only time will tell. -Chris -----Original Message----- From: owner-freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.ORG [mailto:owner-freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.ORG]On Behalf Of Didier Derny Sent: Wednesday, March 29, 2000 10:14 AM To: Jordan K. Hubbard Cc: Martin Cracauer; freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Let 3.x die ASAP? the problem is really simple, I' WORKING with FreeBSD not PLAYING you are like 3 years boys you are trowing their old toys each time they have an new one. I can't an many people can't upgrade the system on their machine at the actual rythm of FreeBSD version (each one supposed to be the best one and solve most of the problems :-))) ) without a real stability (like the one with 2.x) this product has no more value than linux or solaris, sco... even If I have a great hope for FreeBSD 4.x, I consider that actually 4.0 is just bullshit (I mean a developper's toy but I wanted a strong word [perhaps too strong I fear]) and you are already throwing the old one (3.x). A I told you before, I'm preparing a way to be able to choose between FreeBSD and something else (netbsd, openbsd, linux...) but not before next year. perhaps that the abandon of FreeBSD 3.x is simply the first effect of what I was saying in my previous mails ? +-----------+ | | | FreeBSD | | RIP | | | ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ -- Didier Derny didier@omnix.net On Wed, 29 Mar 2000, Jordan K. Hubbard wrote: > I thought the end came for you after you started spreading the FUD the > last time. As Winston Churchill said to Neville Chamberlain after > his highly successful trip to Munich: "For god's sake man, GO!" > > - Jordan > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-stable" in the body of the message
Want to link to this message? Use this URL: <https://mail-archive.FreeBSD.org/cgi/mid.cgi?NDBBILKDCLLECBCLPMBICEBJCAAA.cjm2>