Date: Thu, 27 Oct 2005 11:47:13 -0700 From: Peter Wemm <peter@wemm.org> To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Cc: Gordon Bergling <gbergling@0xfce3.net>, phk@phk.freebsd.dk Subject: Re: wscons for FreeBSD? Message-ID: <200510271147.13917.peter@wemm.org> In-Reply-To: <20051027170709.GB1901@node26.0xfce3.net> References: <20051027133336.GA740@node26.0xfce3.net> <20051027.093346.04239110.imp@bsdimp.com> <20051027170709.GB1901@node26.0xfce3.net>
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On Thursday 27 October 2005 10:07 am, Gordon Bergling wrote: > * Thus spake M. Warner Losh (imp@bsdimp.com): > > In message: <20051027134919.GA858@node26.0xfce3.net> > > > > Gordon Bergling <gbergling@0xfce3.net> writes: > > : * Thus spake Poul-Henning Kamp (phk@phk.freebsd.dk): > > : > In message <20051027133336.GA740@node26.0xfce3.net>, Gordon Bergling writes: > > : > >I am currently working on project, which refactors a lot of > > : > > FreeBSDs console code. > > : > > > : > Sorry for nitpicking, but just to make sure we're clear about > > : > what we talk about here: > > : > > > : > When you say "console", do you mean > > : > "vga+keyboard" ? > > : > or > > : > "printf(9) destination" ? > > : > or > > : > "/dev/console" ? > > : > or all of the above ? > > : > > : What I mean was 'all of the above'. My projects aims to modernize > > : FreeBSDs console in a big picture. That whould range from > > : "simple" vga + keyboard to a possible machine indepent > > : framebuffer API. > > > > wscons in NetBSD can be a console (as in /dev/console) destination. > > Much like sio(4) can be a console in FreeBSD. However, it is > > really a framework for integrating one or more frame buffers (vga), > > with zero or more keyboards and mice into a coherent input system. > > > > It is more of a syscons replacement than a solution to the > > 'console' issues that you've been keen on working out. > > With other words, its something desireable to have at FreeBSD? A syscons replacement isn't such an enticing deal if it still leaves all the 'console' issues. Changing something for the sake of change without fixing the problems just causes transition pain for no benefit. Don't forget, we have to deal with the Xservers as well. Also things like libvgl. syscons, with all its warts, runs on i386, amd64, alpha, sparc64 and there are patches to make it work on ia64 around somewhere. It works with multiple mice and (supposedly) multiple keyboards, but that is more a function of external drivers (sysmouse and kbdmux etc). I think a wscons port was attempted before, early in the sparc64 days, but I don't remember that clearly. Also, there is ssh and serial console between old and new freebsd systems to keep in mind. Having the escape codes consistent is valueable in a data center where you have to tip/cu in text mode over a serial cable to another machine's console and all the control codes are in sync. What would a wscons port buy us anyway? I'm not trying to pour cold water on it, but I would like to know what we get in return for the pain. And how much pain there will be? Does it fix the printf/console/syslogd/dmesg/etc problems? I tend to think the latter group of problems are indepenant of what the actual console driver is. Things that are personally crucial to me: * Speed. (syscons is lightning fast) * text mode mouse cursor with cut/paste that Just Works. * cursor movement control code compatibility. No less than perfect compatibility is good enough! The cons25 termcap entry has to work. Anyway, thats my 2 cents worth. -- Peter Wemm - peter@wemm.org; peter@FreeBSD.org; peter@yahoo-inc.com "All of this is for nothing if we don't go to the stars" - JMS/B5
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