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Date:      Wed, 22 Nov 2000 14:50:57 +1030
From:      Greg Lehey <grog@lemis.com>
To:        Brett Glass <brett@lariat.org>
Cc:        Neil Blakey-Milner <nbm@mithrandr.moria.org>, chat@FreeBSD.ORG
Subject:   Ridding ourselves of GNU software (was: Jordan Hubbard on Darwin)
Message-ID:  <20001122145057.F83853@echunga.lemis.com>
In-Reply-To: <4.3.2.7.2.20001119182538.043874b0@localhost>; from brett@lariat.org on Sun, Nov 19, 2000 at 06:57:33PM -0700
References:  <4.3.2.7.2.20001118142924.00cb6850@localhost> <4.3.2.7.2.20001118142924.00cb6850@localhost> <20001119050641.A4791@mithrandr.moria.org> <4.3.2.7.2.20001119182538.043874b0@localhost>

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On Sunday, 19 November 2000 at 18:57:33 -0700, Brett Glass wrote:
> At 08:06 PM 11/18/2000, Neil Blakey-Milner wrote:
>
>> Ok Brett, we'll just force Jordan to lie next time.  Thanks for the
>> advice.  Here we were innocently thinking that it was good to tell the
>> truth, and evil to lie and obscure the truth, but luckily you're here to
>> set us right.
>
> I would not advocate lying; that is a trait of both the FSF and Microsoft,
> and FreeBSD should not practice it.

*sigh* Brett, many would accuse you of lying with that statement, that
it must be against your better judgement.  I suspect, however, that
you believe it.  It still doesn't help us.

>> While I dislike bash, many others don't,
>
> Fine. But it is not appropriate for a leader of a BSD development
> project to advocate the use of GPLed software.
>
>> and GNU tar is pretty much standard for a Unix system.
>
> If GNU tar is a "standard," it is through the negligence of the BSD
> world. We must fight this and develop equivalent or superior BSD-licensed
> software. If we do not, we are dependent upon an organization which
> would like nothing better than to destroy us! (And could, easily, by
> changing the next version of the GPL.)

Brett, GNU tar is *really* not very good.  I'd love to see a better
replacement.  If you were to go and create one, people would love you
for it.  And don't say "I can't program well enough"; you can learn.

>> Your posts about the evils of the FSF, GPL, and GNU products have
>> lost FreeBSD more users and credibility than your articles, though.
>
> Actually, the only thing that has cost FreeBSD credibility is when
> people WITHIN the FreeBSD community bash me for those postings. They
> see this as portending a lack of unity and of perspective. Surely the
> BSD community should be unanimous in opposing a group that seeks to
> destroy it and the good it has done!

I think we would be.  Your mistake is to assume that we agree with
your views on this matter.

> We really need to unify in opposition to the GPL and purge it from the
> code base. Yes, including the toolchain.

If you lead well, people will follow you.

Greg 
--
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