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Date:      Mon, 16 Jun 1997 01:21:11 -0400
From:      Joel Ray Holveck <joelh@gnu.ai.mit.edu>
To:        jkh@time.cdrom.com
Cc:        molter@logic.it, adrian@obiwan.psinet.net.au, vas@vas.tomsk.su, chat@FreeBSD.ORG
Subject:   Re: To UNIX or not to UNIX ;-). Was: PPP problems.
Message-ID:  <199706160521.BAA16712@ethanol.gnu.ai.mit.edu>
In-Reply-To: <8841.866419524@time.cdrom.com> (jkh@time.cdrom.com)

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>> * Goals (roughly by importance)
>> [ some points, many of which have been covered in previous discussion ]

Sorry, I haven't been following -hackers, so this was the first time I
hit this thread.  I have seen many of the same points made and argued
over many times in -chat.

>This is all well and good, and we've been here before several times
>over the years, but who is going to do the work?  Who is going to
>write all this nifty GUI stuff which takes over the job done by all of
>Windows' nifty GUI stuff for installing and configuring the system?
>You? :-)

Why not?  The reason I wrote up the profile was as the basis of a
plan.  The reason I asked for refinements is so that the plan can be
better.  If we can come up with a plan, then I would be glad to design
it, and coordinate (and participate on) a team to code it.  (Oh, dear,
what am I saying?)  The projects I see succeed are coordinated, so
this has to be people working together, not framentation; otherwise we
get Linux.  A GUI like this, to work, must be internally consistant,
and provide a consistant interface.  I want to make sure that the
ideas we get will work before I start coding.  After that, we can talk
about the rest.

What made the current distribution/release system work?  What about
the current package system?  How did these things come to be the vital
tools they now are?

>Seriously, we've come to this stage not once but several times, and if
>we've proven anything by the exercise it's that everyone knows just
>what UNIX needs to succeed,

I'm still a bit unclear.  And since I just stuck my foot in the thick
of it, then could you please help me see what it needs?

>but when it comes down to "OK, so who will
>champion this?  Who will code up a cohesive framework for others to
>follow?" those with the biggest ideas all retreat back into their
>corners mumbling things about lacking either time or skill.

I don't have the skill... yet.  I can design and code fine, but don't
know much about X.  Still, this can be remedied.  By the time the
framework is designed and planned, I think I can build up a reasonable
level of X skill to get started on that part.

>What stops FreeBSD from being the next NeXTStep is not a crisis of
>ideas, it's a crisis of coders.  Somebody needs to *build* the better
>mousetrap before people will come - simply describing the mousetrap to
>your audience and telling everyone how good it would be/is going to be
>someday is the same mistake that Apple made.  What made NeXT popular
>is that they understood the need for outright deeds, not words! :)

Terrific.  I would like to do this.  People, look over the goals that
I wrote down.  Let's modify them, refine them.  Then, let me know if
you want to help, and how.

Happy hacking,
joelh

-- 
http://www.wp.com/piquan --- Joel Ray Holveck --- joelh@gnu.ai.mit.edu
All my opinions are my own, not the Free Software Foundation's.

Second law of programming:
Anything that can go wrong wi
sendmail: segmentation violation -- core dumped



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