Date: Mon, 3 Feb 2025 13:22:09 -0600 From: Maku Bex <zagazaw2004@gmail.com> To: imp@bsdimp.com Cc: Gleb Smirnoff <glebius@freebsd.org>, "Steven Harms (High-Security Mail)" <sgharms@stevengharms.com>, Tomek CEDRO <tomek@cedro.info>, "freebsd-current@freebsd.org" <freebsd-current@freebsd.org> Subject: Re: Adjustments to userland for a quieter startup (RC system) Message-ID: <CALvWPyZZ7Tu%2BNkxzWUtTa3vcfVQRW=ozD69bewz1o5YRuN7hOA@mail.gmail.com> In-Reply-To: <CANCZdfoN5oWHksOhyKpMgUntU-y3yJsGCMqSxsc3U5e6_WDhrA@mail.gmail.com> References: <JDv17dtjl93rFR9A8XB9qHlawC2oW7JmmXWsnMKq2r51p61si48CAAOzIBi6pY_nTMdJ7zCvSL6M-Hics-CrqLhDJjZP2SG0v1zEHqH8Ug4=@stevengharms.com> <CAFYkXjmN7ma1GDuFP5p3KdHJtoO9Yri-iNLtuOL6mDKx91CBhA@mail.gmail.com> <CAFYkXjnEW8G03VKw4B77-aMQFnPLH7RZQApxWqCZpts5rpQWiA@mail.gmail.com> <S0scwcCr6CV-mqjXoa25r0XOQqm86TCcIXyl9iZ0mV-BrIKOlkfuHKxqjpbH8cuinimu4-9QRren6m9GGEZ5j_euqb9Vz0Wry1kXCalH30Y=@stevengharms.com> <Z6EFaan24qJc82hw@cell.glebi.us> <CALvWPyZjq%2BTAE9e4VgNkc2RMeUu7oR_RmZS3kx=tcJG=Z%2B762Q@mail.gmail.com> <CANCZdfoN5oWHksOhyKpMgUntU-y3yJsGCMqSxsc3U5e6_WDhrA@mail.gmail.com>
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--000000000000a67563062d41cfa6 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Because they all follow the same concept. The startup text is useless in that stage of the OS. If i need it for troubleshooting, dmesg can provide it. IMHO, no text or no splash are irrelevant if they don't speed up the boot process. Until we find a way to deal with this, it all boils down to how the end users like to see when their FreeBSD machine boots up. On Mon, Feb 3, 2025, 12:58 Warner Losh <imp@bsdimp.com> wrote: > Most systems have a pretty splash screen, but a very noisy actual text > screen if you get to it :) I'd be inclined to make that work if it has > broken (it used to work great). > > Warner > > On Mon, Feb 3, 2025 at 11:10=E2=80=AFAM Maku Bex <zagazaw2004@gmail.com> = wrote: > >> Remember that quiet/silent !=3D fast. You might as well ask for a "prett= y" >> splash screen instead of the dizzying text scroll. >> >> On Mon, Feb 3, 2025, 12:05 Gleb Smirnoff <glebius@freebsd.org> wrote: >> >>> On Sun, Feb 02, 2025 at 10:19:11AM +0000, Steven Harms (High-Security >>> Mail) wrote: >>> S> I also realize that this is a probably a controversial perspective. >>> My motivation here is ultimately service to the FreeBSD Laptop project. >>> Windows and OSX have conditioned many in the population of the >>> FreeBSD-curious to expect a lot less text on startup if things are goin= g >>> well. >>> >>> This is how I call this strategy: "trying to win by mimicing current >>> winner". >>> This ain't going to work in general, even if you are mimicing good >>> features. >>> >>> But this particular thing is a misfeature. I find it a big problem tha= t >>> computer is absolutely silent and unresponsive when it is doing >>> something. >>> This has been a problem in the Windows world since Windows 95. This is >>> not a >>> feature that gave Windows and OSX their current popularity. It is a >>> problem >>> and was it fixed they may have eaten even a bigger piece of the desktop >>> market. >>> As you see many people responded with disagreement to your suggestion. >>> Was OSX >>> more reporting to its users, maybe those people would be already on OSX >>> instead >>> of FreeBSD? >>> >>> Of course, FreeBSD policy is - TOOLS NOT POLICY :) So patches to >>> optionally >>> enable silent boot are welcome. >>> >>> -- >>> Gleb Smirnoff >>> >>> --000000000000a67563062d41cfa6 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable <p dir=3D"ltr">Because they all follow the same concept. The startup text i= s useless in that stage of the OS. If i need it for troubleshooting, dmesg = can provide it. IMHO, no text or no splash are irrelevant if they don't= speed up the boot process. Until we find a way to deal with this, it all b= oils down to how the end users like to see when their FreeBSD machine boots= up.</p> <br><div class=3D"gmail_quote gmail_quote_container"><div dir=3D"ltr" class= =3D"gmail_attr">On Mon, Feb 3, 2025, 12:58 Warner Losh <<a href=3D"mailt= o:imp@bsdimp.com">imp@bsdimp.com</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class= =3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padd= ing-left:1ex"><div dir=3D"ltr">Most systems have a pretty splash screen, bu= t a very noisy actual text screen if you get to it :) I'd be inclined t= o make that work if it has broken (it used to work great).<div><br></div><d= iv>Warner</div></div><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><div dir=3D"ltr" class= =3D"gmail_attr">On Mon, Feb 3, 2025 at 11:10=E2=80=AFAM Maku Bex <<a hre= f=3D"mailto:zagazaw2004@gmail.com" target=3D"_blank" rel=3D"noreferrer">zag= azaw2004@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote= " style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);= padding-left:1ex"><p dir=3D"ltr">Remember that quiet/silent !=3D fast. You = might as well ask for a "pretty" splash screen instead of the diz= zying text scroll. </p> <br><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"gmail_attr">On Mon= , Feb 3, 2025, 12:05 Gleb Smirnoff <<a href=3D"mailto:glebius@freebsd.or= g" target=3D"_blank" rel=3D"noreferrer">glebius@freebsd.org</a>> wrote:<= br></div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8e= x;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">On Sun, Feb 02, = 2025 at 10:19:11AM +0000, Steven Harms (High-Security Mail) wrote:<br> S> I also realize that this is a probably a controversial perspective. M= y motivation here is ultimately service to the FreeBSD Laptop project. Wind= ows and OSX have conditioned many in the population of the FreeBSD-curious = to expect a lot less text on startup if things are going well. <br> <br> This is how I call this strategy: "trying to win by mimicing current w= inner".<br> This ain't going to work in general, even if you are mimicing good feat= ures.<br> <br> But this particular thing is a misfeature.=C2=A0 I find it a big problem th= at<br> computer is absolutely silent and unresponsive when it is doing something.<= br> This has been a problem in the Windows world since Windows 95.=C2=A0 This i= s not a<br> feature that gave Windows and OSX their current popularity.=C2=A0 It is a p= roblem<br> and was it fixed they may have eaten even a bigger piece of the desktop mar= ket.<br> As you see many people responded with disagreement to your suggestion.=C2= =A0 Was OSX<br> more reporting to its users, maybe those people would be already on OSX ins= tead<br> of FreeBSD?<br> <br> Of course, FreeBSD policy is - TOOLS NOT POLICY :) So patches to optionally= <br> enable silent boot are welcome.<br> <br> -- <br> Gleb Smirnoff<br> <br> </blockquote></div> </blockquote></div> </blockquote></div> --000000000000a67563062d41cfa6--
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