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Date:      Mon, 3 Feb 2025 13:22:09 -0600
From:      Maku Bex <zagazaw2004@gmail.com>
To:        imp@bsdimp.com
Cc:        Gleb Smirnoff <glebius@freebsd.org>,  "Steven Harms (High-Security Mail)" <sgharms@stevengharms.com>, Tomek CEDRO <tomek@cedro.info>,  "freebsd-current@freebsd.org" <freebsd-current@freebsd.org>
Subject:   Re: Adjustments to userland for a quieter startup (RC system)
Message-ID:  <CALvWPyZZ7Tu%2BNkxzWUtTa3vcfVQRW=ozD69bewz1o5YRuN7hOA@mail.gmail.com>
In-Reply-To: <CANCZdfoN5oWHksOhyKpMgUntU-y3yJsGCMqSxsc3U5e6_WDhrA@mail.gmail.com>
References:  <JDv17dtjl93rFR9A8XB9qHlawC2oW7JmmXWsnMKq2r51p61si48CAAOzIBi6pY_nTMdJ7zCvSL6M-Hics-CrqLhDJjZP2SG0v1zEHqH8Ug4=@stevengharms.com> <CAFYkXjmN7ma1GDuFP5p3KdHJtoO9Yri-iNLtuOL6mDKx91CBhA@mail.gmail.com> <CAFYkXjnEW8G03VKw4B77-aMQFnPLH7RZQApxWqCZpts5rpQWiA@mail.gmail.com> <S0scwcCr6CV-mqjXoa25r0XOQqm86TCcIXyl9iZ0mV-BrIKOlkfuHKxqjpbH8cuinimu4-9QRren6m9GGEZ5j_euqb9Vz0Wry1kXCalH30Y=@stevengharms.com> <Z6EFaan24qJc82hw@cell.glebi.us> <CALvWPyZjq%2BTAE9e4VgNkc2RMeUu7oR_RmZS3kx=tcJG=Z%2B762Q@mail.gmail.com> <CANCZdfoN5oWHksOhyKpMgUntU-y3yJsGCMqSxsc3U5e6_WDhrA@mail.gmail.com>

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Because they all follow the same concept. The startup text is useless in
that stage of the OS. If i need it for troubleshooting, dmesg can provide
it. IMHO, no text or no splash are irrelevant if they don't speed up the
boot process. Until we find a way to deal with this, it all boils down to
how the end users like to see when their FreeBSD machine boots up.

On Mon, Feb 3, 2025, 12:58 Warner Losh <imp@bsdimp.com> wrote:

> Most systems have a pretty splash screen, but a very noisy actual text
> screen if you get to it :) I'd be inclined to make that work if it has
> broken (it used to work great).
>
> Warner
>
> On Mon, Feb 3, 2025 at 11:10=E2=80=AFAM Maku Bex <zagazaw2004@gmail.com> =
wrote:
>
>> Remember that quiet/silent !=3D fast. You might as well ask for a "prett=
y"
>> splash screen instead of the dizzying text scroll.
>>
>> On Mon, Feb 3, 2025, 12:05 Gleb Smirnoff <glebius@freebsd.org> wrote:
>>
>>> On Sun, Feb 02, 2025 at 10:19:11AM +0000, Steven Harms (High-Security
>>> Mail) wrote:
>>> S> I also realize that this is a probably a controversial perspective.
>>> My motivation here is ultimately service to the FreeBSD Laptop project.
>>> Windows and OSX have conditioned many in the population of the
>>> FreeBSD-curious to expect a lot less text on startup if things are goin=
g
>>> well.
>>>
>>> This is how I call this strategy: "trying to win by mimicing current
>>> winner".
>>> This ain't going to work in general, even if you are mimicing good
>>> features.
>>>
>>> But this particular thing is a misfeature.  I find it a big problem tha=
t
>>> computer is absolutely silent and unresponsive when it is doing
>>> something.
>>> This has been a problem in the Windows world since Windows 95.  This is
>>> not a
>>> feature that gave Windows and OSX their current popularity.  It is a
>>> problem
>>> and was it fixed they may have eaten even a bigger piece of the desktop
>>> market.
>>> As you see many people responded with disagreement to your suggestion.
>>> Was OSX
>>> more reporting to its users, maybe those people would be already on OSX
>>> instead
>>> of FreeBSD?
>>>
>>> Of course, FreeBSD policy is - TOOLS NOT POLICY :) So patches to
>>> optionally
>>> enable silent boot are welcome.
>>>
>>> --
>>> Gleb Smirnoff
>>>
>>>

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<p dir=3D"ltr">Because they all follow the same concept. The startup text i=
s useless in that stage of the OS. If i need it for troubleshooting, dmesg =
can provide it. IMHO, no text or no splash are irrelevant if they don&#39;t=
 speed up the boot process. Until we find a way to deal with this, it all b=
oils down to how the end users like to see when their FreeBSD machine boots=
 up.</p>
<br><div class=3D"gmail_quote gmail_quote_container"><div dir=3D"ltr" class=
=3D"gmail_attr">On Mon, Feb 3, 2025, 12:58 Warner Losh &lt;<a href=3D"mailt=
o:imp@bsdimp.com">imp@bsdimp.com</a>&gt; wrote:<br></div><blockquote class=
=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padd=
ing-left:1ex"><div dir=3D"ltr">Most systems have a pretty splash screen, bu=
t a very noisy actual text screen if you get to it :) I&#39;d be inclined t=
o make that work if it has broken (it used to work great).<div><br></div><d=
iv>Warner</div></div><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><div dir=3D"ltr" class=
=3D"gmail_attr">On Mon, Feb 3, 2025 at 11:10=E2=80=AFAM Maku Bex &lt;<a hre=
f=3D"mailto:zagazaw2004@gmail.com" target=3D"_blank" rel=3D"noreferrer">zag=
azaw2004@gmail.com</a>&gt; wrote:<br></div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote=
" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);=
padding-left:1ex"><p dir=3D"ltr">Remember that quiet/silent !=3D fast. You =
might as well ask for a &quot;pretty&quot; splash screen instead of the diz=
zying text scroll. </p>
<br><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"gmail_attr">On Mon=
, Feb 3, 2025, 12:05 Gleb Smirnoff &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:glebius@freebsd.or=
g" target=3D"_blank" rel=3D"noreferrer">glebius@freebsd.org</a>&gt; wrote:<=
br></div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8e=
x;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">On Sun, Feb 02, =
2025 at 10:19:11AM +0000, Steven Harms (High-Security Mail) wrote:<br>
S&gt; I also realize that this is a probably a controversial perspective. M=
y motivation here is ultimately service to the FreeBSD Laptop project. Wind=
ows and OSX have conditioned many in the population of the FreeBSD-curious =
to expect a lot less text on startup if things are going well. <br>
<br>
This is how I call this strategy: &quot;trying to win by mimicing current w=
inner&quot;.<br>
This ain&#39;t going to work in general, even if you are mimicing good feat=
ures.<br>
<br>
But this particular thing is a misfeature.=C2=A0 I find it a big problem th=
at<br>
computer is absolutely silent and unresponsive when it is doing something.<=
br>
This has been a problem in the Windows world since Windows 95.=C2=A0 This i=
s not a<br>
feature that gave Windows and OSX their current popularity.=C2=A0 It is a p=
roblem<br>
and was it fixed they may have eaten even a bigger piece of the desktop mar=
ket.<br>
As you see many people responded with disagreement to your suggestion.=C2=
=A0 Was OSX<br>
more reporting to its users, maybe those people would be already on OSX ins=
tead<br>
of FreeBSD?<br>
<br>
Of course, FreeBSD policy is - TOOLS NOT POLICY :) So patches to optionally=
<br>
enable silent boot are welcome.<br>
<br>
-- <br>
Gleb Smirnoff<br>
<br>
</blockquote></div>
</blockquote></div>
</blockquote></div>

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