Date: Thu, 5 Dec 1996 17:18:10 -0700 (MST) From: Softweyr LLC <softweyr@xmission.com> To: rkw@dataplex.net (Richard Wackerbarth) Cc: chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: FreeBSD etc. Message-ID: <199612060018.RAA04841@xmission.xmission.com> In-Reply-To: <l03010901aeccb60bc84b@[204.69.236.50]> from "Richard Wackerbarth" at Dec 5, 96 11:36:55 am
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Recently, I chastised Richard Wackerbarth thusly:
% If you, Richard, want to become the champion of security patches for
% FreeBSD 2.1.6.1+, talk to Jordan and devise a mechanism for distri-
% buting security patches as part of "the organization."
He responded with:
> Here I have to disagree with you.
> This is EXACTLY what I am, and have been, trying to do.
> The mechanism exists. The commitment to use it is lacking.
> It appears that some of the developers don't want it to happen.
Perhaps. FreeBSD is their creation, literally their brainchild. The
would hate to see it disfigured by some buch of rank "amateurs" like
you and I, even though I am certainly not an amateur at this, and you
may not be either. We haven't "fought this war" with them, and are
therefore not particulary welcome to go in and diddle up their baby.
On the other hand, they're busily creating the next child, and do not
have time to dedicate to caring for 2.1.x as it approaches its dotage.
I suggest being mindful of this when offering "help." Keep in mind
that you are offering help for a problem they don't want to solve,
and convince them that you will eliminate the problem, not escalate
it right into their hearts. ;^)
% In other words,
% if it is really important to you, become part of the solution, rather
% than remaining part of the problem. Nobody has ever said FreeBSD is a
% closed organization, and offers to volunteer are rarely turned down.
%
% Most of the call for continuing security fixes for the -STABLE branch
% have come from ISPs using FreeBSD to make money, but I have heard
% exactly *none* of them volunteer any resources - manpower, cpu cycles,
% disk space, network bandwidth, *nothing* in order to make this happen.
% Put up or shut up!
> I agree with the sentiment. However, that does not apply to me.
> (1) I'm not making any money using FreeBSD.
> (2) I AM supplying manpower, cpu cycles, disk space and network bandwidth
> in support of FreeBSD, and have been doing so for some time.
You don't work for an ISP, or another business that uses FreeBSD in
their quest for $$$? I intended the inclusive "you", meaning you and
whoever pays your salary. I have to assume you wouldn't not be so
interested in security if you were just using FreeBSD at home; you
could simply drop the net connection unless you are actively moving
bits across the wire.
I mostly wanted to communicate that I agree with your intentions but
not your methods -- supporting the 2.1.x branch until 2.2 has proven to
be commerically reliable is a good idea. Having it supported by
"FreeBSD.ORG" is mandatory. I just strongly disagree that Jordan,
Nate, et al *must* be responsible for this. There has been much heat
thrown about this topic lately, with exactly *no* light, and I am
really growing tired of it. I am also tiring of reading your diatribes
against Nate; you seem to have forgotten that he is doing this
voluntarily. Even if he no longer cares to assist 2.1.x users, what
gives you the right to publicly chastise him for this attitude?
On the other hand, your response to my rather sharply worded message is
quite heartening. As I suggested earlier, talk to Jordan and work
something out so that *you* can continue to support security patches to
the 2.1.x tree:
o Gather together others who will help you, perhaps from the ISP
community.
O Create a mechanism for distributing patches to those who don't have
disk space to keep the entire source tree on-line.
o Create a patch kit.
o Get some people with resources to test it.
o *NOW* get it branded as an official part of FreeBSD, and put onto
the master ftp server, wcarchive.
Talk to Jordan and get something worked out. In other words, solve the
problem, and leave the ad-hominem attacks out of the mailing lists.
--
"Where am I, and what am I doing in this handbasket?"
Wes Peters Softweyr LLC
http://www.xmission.com/~softweyr softweyr@xmission.com
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