Date: Thu, 18 May 2017 16:36:57 -0500 From: Eric van Gyzen <eric@vangyzen.net> To: Ian Lepore <ian@freebsd.org>, Baptiste Daroussin <bapt@freebsd.org> Cc: John Baldwin <jhb@freebsd.org>, rgrimes@freebsd.org, Ngie Cooper <ngie@freebsd.org>, svn-src-head@freebsd.org, svn-src-all@freebsd.org, src-committers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: svn commit: r318441 - in head/etc: . cron.d Message-ID: <10f3d402-f392-d4ed-cc47-76296f0ef4e7@vangyzen.net> In-Reply-To: <1495143278.89384.24.camel@freebsd.org> References: <201705180625.v4I6Pd9j062495@repo.freebsd.org> <201705180956.v4I9uVpQ065465@pdx.rh.CN85.dnsmgr.net> <20170518130932.eo5clhki4za2vigz@ivaldir.net> <2201156.H7EQSgYph9@ralph.baldwin.cx> <20170518212429.rugl6vnv5d2b2hpb@ivaldir.net> <20170518212911.mstgmzbydsv7oind@ivaldir.net> <1495143278.89384.24.camel@freebsd.org>
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On 05/18/2017 16:34, Ian Lepore wrote: > On Thu, 2017-05-18 at 23:29 +0200, Baptiste Daroussin wrote: >> On Thu, May 18, 2017 at 03:27:49PM -0600, Ian Lepore wrote: >>> >>> On Thu, 2017-05-18 at 23:24 +0200, Baptiste Daroussin wrote: >>>> >>>> On Thu, May 18, 2017 at 09:48:25AM -0700, John Baldwin wrote: >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> On Thursday, May 18, 2017 03:09:32 PM Baptiste Daroussin wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> On Thu, May 18, 2017 at 02:56:31AM -0700, Rodney W. Grimes >>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>> [...] >>>>> The support for broken out files has long been there, but the >>>>> base >>>>> system has >>>>> not used them previously for default config shipped during a >>>>> release. That >>>>> is in fact a new trend. >>>>> >>>>> However, the current approach seems to be the absolute worst >>>>> way to >>>>> do this. >>>>> If someone wants to use the existing base system image and >>>>> modify >>>>> it with >>>>> config management, they now have to use a mix of styles (for >>>>> some >>>>> services >>>>> edit a global config file for certain settings, but use a >>>>> dedicated >>>>> file for >>>>> other settings for the same service, or for the same settings >>>>> but a >>>>> different >>>>> service). It's also the worst case for humans trying to work >>>>> with >>>>> our system >>>>> as the division between which services are broken out vs global >>>>> is >>>>> inconsistent and arbitrary. >>>>> >>>>> Once you split up the files you make a merge conflict for >>>>> anyone >>>>> trying to do >>>>> an upgrade. If we do this piecemail then we create N merge >>>>> conflicts for users >>>>> to deal with as opposed to if you split it up all at once. >>>>> >>>>> Also, there wasn't a clear consensus (a mail to arch@ with >>>>> "hey, we >>>>> should >>>>> switch to splitting up config files for reasons A and B and >>>>> let's >>>>> do this for >>>>> 12.0 but not merge to stable so there is a clear flag day / >>>>> sign >>>>> post for users >>>>> to manage upgrades". Instead there have been a couple of >>>>> commits >>>>> and any >>>>> not-in-100%-agreement opinions are ignored. >>>>> >>>> That's true, another thing is the way it is done, there is no >>>> simple >>>> way to >>>> disable the at cron from an admin point of view rather than rm >>>> /etc/cron.d/at >>>> for an end user which an upgrade will bring back. >>>> >>>> Bapt >>> Would you not just comment out or delete the line, exactly as you >>> would >>> do in the main /etc/crontab? >> Right but with a .d directory I would expect to just remove/add >> files/symlinks >> rather than editing it, which defeat the point of the .d >> >> Bapt > > Hrm, I don't see any conflict between "this fine-grained file holds > config for just one component" and "edit the file if you want to change > the config". That is, making the file fine-grained is to make editing > it EASIER (for a human or a program), not to eliminate editing it. > > I do see how thinking that deleting the file (or renaming it to file.no > or something) would seem like the right thing to do. How can we fix > that? How would an upgrade bring back /etc/cron.d/at if the end-user deleted it? Eric
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