Date: Sat, 03 Jun 2023 13:30:31 -0700 From: Cy Schubert <Cy.Schubert@cschubert.com> To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org, Warner Losh <imp@bsdimp.com>, Mark Millard <marklmi@yahoo.com> Cc: Emmanuel Vadot <manu@bidouilliste.com>, freebsd-arch <freebsd-arch@freebsd.org> Subject: Re: Future of 32-bit platforms (including i386) Message-ID: <CAFEC956-019C-4BCA-9185-5D0DCD7A0F94@cschubert.com> In-Reply-To: <CANCZdfqDFS=zZPCZSN68PTJbcaviX3sMUt%2BOdfagptjGFOTctw@mail.gmail.com> References: <00E63ECC-2E7B-4C9F-9903-A8BD67278C00.ref@yahoo.com> <00E63ECC-2E7B-4C9F-9903-A8BD67278C00@yahoo.com> <CANCZdfotDMz2DBu-iZNKf_%2BQBQO4EBv-hS_jx9xa69LyzB5niQ@mail.gmail.com> <3D0FACB4-A356-4FB1-BB10-0232DEBB08C0@yahoo.com> <CANCZdfqDFS=zZPCZSN68PTJbcaviX3sMUt%2BOdfagptjGFOTctw@mail.gmail.com>
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On June 3, 2023 11:29:00 AM PDT, Warner Losh <imp@bsdimp=2Ecom> wrote: >On Sat, Jun 3, 2023, 10:44 AM Mark Millard <marklmi@yahoo=2Ecom> wrote: > >> >> On May 31, 2023, at 10:30, Warner Losh <imp@bsdimp=2Ecom> wrote: >> >> > On Sun, May 28, 2023 at 10:09=E2=80=AFAM Mark Millard <marklmi@yahoo= =2Ecom> wrote: >> > Emmanuel Vadot <manu_at_bidouilliste=2Ecom> wrote on >> > Date: Wed, 24 May 2023 06:35:55 UTC : >> > >> > > =2E =2E =2E >> > > >> > > I personnaly see armv7 in "degraded maintainance mode" since 13=2E0= , >> > > nothing really intersting was added, no new SoC support even if the= re >> > > was some interesting one that we could support, no new drivers for >> > > supported platforms=2E We even lost TI BeagleBone support because n= o one >> > > really have the time to keep support up to date=2E >> > > I still have some little cute boards that I want to use from time t= o >> > > time but the lack of proper porting of new language (like rust and = iirc >> > > go have problems too) is making new software unusable on those boar= ds >> > > (you can't even make some "smart speaker" for spotify as all the >> > > spotify clients are in rust)=2E >> > > IMX6 support is stalled since ian@ passed away and mmel@ isn't very >> > > active atm and they were both the most actives developers for armv7= low >> > > level code=2E >> > >> > One of the things for tier 2 is: >> > (from https://docs=2Efreebsd=2Eorg/en/articles/committers-guide/#arch= s >> > 21=2E4=2E Tier 2 section) >> > >> > QUOTE >> > Collectively, developers are required to provide the following >> > to maintain the Tier 2 status of a platform: >> > >> > =E2=80=A2 Tier 2 architectures must have an active ecosystem of u= sers and >> developers=2E >> > END QUOTE >> > >> > Is there an implication that, even for 14, the "developers" >> > part of that for armv7 has dropped off to the point that >> > tier 2 would reasonably be in question? >> > >> > For the 14 branch, armv7 seems to be right on the edge=2E Some >> > bugs do get fixed, but some of the SoCs are so poorly maintained >> > that they don't work anymore (for whatever reason)=2E So "degraded >> > maintenance mode" is likely apt for 14: it will still work, mostly, b= ut >> > many cool new things that people want, both in terms of languages >> > and new hardware support will be lacking in some way, shape or >> > form=2E Tier 2 is likely still the best tier to keep it at, imho=2E >> > >> >> One thing I was unsure of is how much the choice is driven >> by things as they are at around releng/14=2E0 vs=2E what things >> might be expected to be like around, say, releng/14=2E4 (a >> number of years later)=2E It appears that changing tier status >> is normally avoided for the likes of 14=2E[1-4] =2E >> > >A lot of it is sticking your finger in the air and projecting out 4 years= =2E >If nobody is going to be making any fixes and the code doesn't work at th= at >point, we are better off killing it now=2E For armv7, I still see bug fix= es >happening, but anticipate that any bad bug that pops up may not het fixed= =2E >I see no new hardware support absent some unforeseen resurgence=2E > >I suspect when we branch 15, it's 4 years out prospects will be even wors= e=2E >But I don't know that for sure=2E > >Warner > >=3D=3D=3D >> Mark Millard >> marklmi at yahoo=2Ecom >> >> IMO, having to "double back" to fix format errors or integer conversion er= rors causes developers just that little bit of distraction, time that added= up over time could be put to better use elsewhere=2E Compilers tend to be = more fussy these days, meaning one must pay even more attention to 64-bit v= s 32-bit than before=2E That's been my take over the years=2E --=20 Cheers, Cy Schubert <Cy=2ESchubert@cschubert=2Ecom> FreeBSD UNIX: <cy@FreeBSD=2Eorg> Web: https://FreeBSD=2Eorg NTP: <cy@nwtime=2Eorg> Web: https://nwtime=2Eorg e^(i*pi)+1=3D0 Pardon the typos=2E Small keyboard in use=2E
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