Date: Sun, 07 Nov 1999 17:06:06 +0100 From: Roelof Osinga <roelof@nisser.com> To: Mike Smith <mike@smith.net.au> Cc: Randy Bush <randy@psg.com>, FreeBSD Stable <freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.ORG> Subject: Re: easyboot far into disk Message-ID: <3825A36E.5920209D@nisser.com> References: <199911062057.MAA07266@dingo.cdrom.com>
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Mike Smith wrote:
>
> > Nice, if the boot process can work with the CHS driver. The problem
> > is that is not always the case. E.g. mine. So you can't *get* up and
> > running.
>
> Ok. Would you care to share some details of your problems, rather than
> just the bile and vitriol?
It has been over on -questions. B.t.w. I fail to see bile and/or vitriol
in stating that a problem occurres. You should've seen the first draft,
written after a week of diligently trying, studying manpages, discussing
over on -questions, reading relevant pages in Greg's book, etc.
> > SOL. You can copy the boot0cfg onto the fixit, but what about the
>
> Build it static.
We were, and are, talking newbies here.
> "We" being whom, here? Most of us can just fine. If your BIOS won't
> translate "right" past the 1024 cylinder mark then you're in the
> minority these days. But even then, you can build a new boot1/boot2
> with packet-mode as default enabled and install them on the floppy. The
> loader doesn't do packet mode yet simply because I haven't found a case
> where it's been needed.
Some others over on -questions. Would I have had a case for you! In
case you're interested it's a Plato MB with a Quantum EL 5.1A. Again,
I'm pretty much sure all this can be build and installed. What I dare
to dispute, however, is the easy accessibility of friendly instructions
outlining the process. For newbies.
> That wouldn't have been nice; we tested it (I've mentioned this
> publically before), and it kills quite a number of machines dead. You
> wouldn't have been able to boot them at all. That would have been bad.
There you go, I mentioned the details publically before. You seem to
have missed those, I seem to have missed your mention. But I agree that
a larger number of machines dead is worse.
> > - boot had the -o packet option
>
> I don't follow what you're suggesting here.
Simple. boot0cfg clearly does something to something. boot can be
interupted. Why not put the code that does something to something into
boot so that on ancient machines that need it it can be had without
going through the hoopla's needed to get it currently. From a newbie's
perspective pressing space and entering "boot -o packet" is way more
prerable than building a statically linked boot0cfg, injecting that -
usually by magic incantation - into some diskette, executing said
executable together with new cabalistic handweaving only to end up
with something that could mayhap have been incorporated in the
first place.
> > - the install disks could be used to access ones root disk
>
> They can.
So people keep telling me. I spend over a week on it an I tell you
they can't. Not in any sensible way, that is. Compared to this, say,
Linux is pure bliss. You pop in the disk enter the root and you're off.
Better yet, the process is described in the installation README. Even
a newbie can do that, especially with some handholding.
> They have been, but ideally there shouldn't be any magic required.
Granted on the latter, but as to the former... what does one need to
ritually slaughter in order to find those reputed instructions?
> > - people that yell RTFM would be automatically throttled
>
> That's stupid. Documentation exists to save our time and effort. If
> you're too lazy to read it, you've got it coming to you.
I don't know. It's a good way to cull population growth. But you're
missing the point. What newbie would know what docs to read in the
first place? Don't tell me boot0cfg is intuitively named <g>. From a
newbie's perspective that wouldn't know a boot if it reset him. E.g.
nisser:/home/www/Slak$ man boot | grep packet
nisser:/home/www/Slak$ man loader | grep packet
nisser:/home/www/Slak$ man boot0cfg | grep packet
packet Use the disk packet (BIOS Int 0x13 extensions) interface
`nopacket'.
Use of the `packet' option may cause `boot0' to fail, depending on the
nisser:/home/www/Slak$
So you can, and I did, study man-pages till you drop; but if you
somehow fail to miss the right one you're up the creek without a paddle.
And then you come here only to read people saying "oh, it's so easy,
all you need to do is read the man-pages" WHAT manpage! or how about
"took me awhile but I figured it out, it's easy once you know how". So
tell us the steps allready!
Boot and loader are covered by some 31 manpages. Most of which is and
alway will be absolutely irrelevant for the average user, never mind
the newbie. BTW count is straightforward aporpos:
nisser:/home/www/Slak$ echo `apropos boot | wc -l` " + " `apropos loader | wc
-l` | bc
31
> TFM still tells you to put the root filesystem below 1024 cylinders.
> In most cases, you can get away with anything up to 8GB, but we don't
> document that because of people like yourself.
Yeah, yeah. Got a system running quite happily with >10 GB. Thank you
very much. The problem here is that FreeBSD on this particular box does
not do what Linux does, namely correctly detecting the disk geometry.
And therein, as they say, lies the rub.
Completed, naturally, by being locked into the installation process if
you go back to the install disks. Come hell or high water, when you exit
it you reboot. If there is a way to install the root in such a way that
it uses the correct disk geometry I have failed to find it. In which I
am not alone, b.t.w.
Mind you, these are just my findings. To with as you please. I've already
come to the conclusion that it will be just a bit more time efficient to
wipe that disk, install a small DOS partition and reinstall the OS. Funny,
though, that FreeBSD needs DOS to run ;).
Roelof
--
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