Date: Wed, 16 May 2018 03:06:22 -0700 From: Kevin Bowling <kevin.bowling@kev009.com> To: blubee blubeeme <gurenchan@gmail.com> Cc: Johannes Lundberg <johalun0@gmail.com>, x11-list freebsd <freebsd-x11@freebsd.org>, Niclas Zeising <zeising@freebsd.org> Subject: Re: your mail Message-ID: <CAK7dMtD05_crvu6WhJYoKefsj58WqY%2B_nGOiimN_dt%2BV92vb5w@mail.gmail.com> In-Reply-To: <CALM2mEnuwPBZHE7FCtxeuQmrfkLVE9ZghvdFxuZiU0keH8FyNw@mail.gmail.com> References: <CACvgo523OnQAKe0capm0u7XqSdV%2Bpwhqhjtg4%2BmFowvWARHQ_Q@mail.gmail.com> <20170222120828.zkrfh56swen7r44o@ivaldir.etoilebsd.net> <CACvgo50Jbs3vQyE-bzxJ3CqeKXnhrGTXyt=ngZRZHNF=0rsq-g@mail.gmail.com> <3635692.Vys3mgEcQY@workstation.reztek> <CACvgo51x1s77y-8w0j7hS4O9ZJASzhh%2Bo8yAULvoXtMB3LB=Sw@mail.gmail.com> <237b2552-c97c-fd41-5509-ed611f0103dd@freebsd.org> <CALM2mEkb%2BXGcBm5OV6ArtXyz2jUhuHso4ULn100r_1phoig-oA@mail.gmail.com> <efb0370d-bbbc-9629-79d3-fa6d6f4b4bf7@freebsd.org> <CALM2mEnQ5SwZ7VvoDdBouOL8NYRBeObNwT0WoGvaCusi_oU16w@mail.gmail.com> <CAECmPwtBgQxNBLb3L9Dfo-PtAjYL1r0=3YdzNmxOotLshd-J-g@mail.gmail.com> <CALM2mEnuwPBZHE7FCtxeuQmrfkLVE9ZghvdFxuZiU0keH8FyNw@mail.gmail.com>
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>> Johannes you do great work but you missed my point. > > There's absolutely no reason for anyone to invest any resources into > developing a proper graphics stack for FreeBSD if the FreeBSD devs are only > going to rely on Jerry-rigged stuff from Linux. > > The mailing list is bombarded by regressions and issues with the Linuxkpi > stuff. For lightweight stuff sure, use the Linuxkpi if u have to but for a > major component of the platform, that's just pathetic. > > There are talented devs out there who can get the work done, they just need > to be financing, then organized. That's a pretty blatant put up or shut up comment. Do you have tens of millions of dollars to fund this? If yes, I know exactly who to tap from community to do the development and I'd be happy to organize it. One thing to realize about driver development, and most complex systems programming, is that the cost of going from a neat hack to something commercially viable is exponential. For example, blitting to a framebuffer or pushing a packet out of a NIC is a one day affair. Driving those device in a competitive, performance oriented, stable and worth using in commercial deployments is a years long affair. I can tell you that each of the most used storage, network, and many software subsystems are at minimum millions of dollars a piece of professional development. A graphics stack is more complex than most of these. > Seeing as most other platforms got their networking stack from BSD, it's a > sad state when FreeBSD has to use Linuxkpi to get networking drivers. > > If stating that the FreeBSD graphics stack is in a sad position is > "shitting on people" then I'm guilty of that. > > I just know that we can and should do better. For network drivers I do actually agree with you. I see the companies using LKPI in the Ethernet path as pretty pathetic because it's objectively a tractable amount of work, especially now with iflib. I've steered many thousand NIC purchases away from LKPI drivers for various reasons including this. You can vote with your wallet by using Chelsio and Intel. Regards, Kevin
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