Date: Mon, 7 Jun 1999 15:29:18 -0400 (EDT) From: Chuck Robey <chuckr@picnic.mat.net> To: Nate Williams <nate@mt.sri.com> Cc: David Scheidt <dscheidt@enteract.com>, freebsd-current@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: bsd.lib.mk "@"'s Message-ID: <Pine.BSF.4.10.9906071523580.679-100000@picnic.mat.net> In-Reply-To: <199906071921.NAA08649@mt.sri.com>
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On Mon, 7 Jun 1999, Nate Williams wrote: > > > > > > Why are many of the build lines in bsd.lib.mk hidden with leading @'s, > > > > > > so that they don't display in the build? This is useless, it hides > > > > > > things that go wrong, and hardly belongs here, it seems to me. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > How often do your calls to ld, mv and rm fail? > > > > > > > > That's not the point, the point is that current is a bleeding edge > > > > thing, not production, and the details should not be hidden, there's no > > > > possible justification for that. > > > > > > Sure there is, in the same manner that we don't use 'cc -v' as the > > > command line parameters to see *all* the excruciating details of how a > > > program is compiled. > > > > > > The '@' calls are not considered important details, and as such are > > > hidden. If we include *EVERYTHING* then finding the actual problem is > > > often much harder due to trying to wade through the noise. > > > > > > The '@' commands help to reduce the noise, giving us a better > > > signal/noise ratio. > > > > On a buildworld, Nate? > > bsd.lib.mk is used in all 'builds', not just buildworld. When I do the > following sets of commands: > > # cd /usr/src/lib/libc > # make > > I also use bsd.lib.mk. > > I don't *care* about the '@' commands. > > > Who's worried about signal to noise there? > > I am, if I'm the developer trying to debug a user's problem. Wading > through 1-2M of logfiles to find a problem is much less likely than me > wading through 100-200K of logfiles. Wait a second. bsd.lib.mk is for our buildworld, right? If you're hijacking it for customers, that's fine, but it's for buildworld for FreeBSD, not for everyone's customers. If it's a customer's thing, then it doesn't change all the time, and you can very easily stick in all those @ signs, but not so for the guy doing a buildworld, who gets his stuff put back with every cvsup. When the buildworld breaks, the info is at the end of the listing nearly all of the time, so there isn't any searching time. You refer to logfiles, but I'm talking about bsd.lib.mk, and not your application that must be bending bsd.lib.mk to produce logfiles. This is for buildworld listings. When you get to the problem, you want to know why it broke. If you use this makefile for your customer's, fine, you can stick all the @ signs in you want, because your customer isn't always regenning new bsd.lib.mk's like we all are. ----------------------------+----------------------------------------------- Chuck Robey | Interests include any kind of voice or data chuckr@picnic.mat.net | communications topic, C programming, and Unix. 213 Lakeside Drive Apt T-1 | Greenbelt, MD 20770 | I run picnic (FreeBSD-current) (301) 220-2114 | and jaunt (Solaris7). ----------------------------+----------------------------------------------- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-current" in the body of the message
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