Date: Thu, 14 Jan 1999 13:16:02 -0000 From: Paul Richards <paul@originative.co.uk> To: "'Warner Losh'" <imp@village.org>, Greg Lehey <grog@lemis.com> Cc: FreeBSD current users <FreeBSD-current@FreeBSD.ORG> Subject: A closed developers list (follows on from Thanks Core Team) Message-ID: <E40CBF0361C7D111914000C0F0303D108875@OCTOPUS>
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> -----Original Message----- > From: Warner Losh [mailto:imp@village.org] > Sent: Monday, December 28, 1998 7:30 PM > To: Greg Lehey > Cc: FreeBSD current users > Subject: Re: Thanks, Core Team > > > : > -committers is a notorious unproductive and flame-prone place to > : > discuss code removal. > > I have to ***STRONGLY*** disagree with this sentement. -committers > has been, at times, flame prone. However, many times when I have > asked for feedback in -committers there is enough good information > generated, even if there is some flamage. > > -current is by far much worse than -committers. > > Personally, I think that *ANY* major changes should be talked about in > at least -committers. It is a small enough group to have a high > enough signal to noise ratio, and a large enough group to get a > meaningfully good responses. > > And if people start to flame or get off into the weeds on -committers, > then other committers should tell them so. The problem with committers is that it's not the small group you suggest it is, it's still an open list, it just hasn't been corrupted in the way that current has become but it's starting. I think we should have a closed list for just committers. I can sympathise with Poul though I don't agree with him. I think the excuse that it's hard work to get consensus on the open lists is not an excuse for not consulting the other project members outside of core. However, I do agree that the open lists have become unmanageable. All of the lists, committers included which is not supposed to be a discussion forum (!), have become far too overloaded for comfortable discussion to take place. Given that there has been some sentiment that core needs to open up a little bit when it comes to discussing project decisions then those with commit privs would be the natural group to include in the discussions. With a closed committers list then the people involved in the main have a proven track record of active participation and have a vested interest in what happens to the tree rather than a passive interest from the sidelines. There's also an element of accountability and manageability since commit privs are just that, a privilege and can be revoked if a civil attitude to discussion does not prevail (should apply to core team members as much as anyone else). I think it would provide a buffer for core to check consensus and tweak their position before carrying out actions or pronouncing things to a wider audience. A bit like the cabinet presenting a discussion to parliament but not letting the people get involved in every little bit of decision making. If we do that then I think the current committers list should be shut off and just used for commit messages. The email load is becoming a big problem, I find I'm losing discussions and important messages in the noise that mostly should be in questions or hackers but is permeating to those lists where the developers hang out in the belief that that's where the best answer will come from. Paul. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-current" in the body of the message
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