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Date:      Thu, 19 Mar 1998 20:08:49 -0600 (CST)
From:      "Lee Crites (AEI)" <leec@adam.adonai.net>
To:        "Jordan K. Hubbard" <jkh@time.cdrom.com>
Cc:        hackers@FreeBSD.ORG
Subject:   Re: SCO (was Re: hi terry) 
Message-ID:  <Pine.BSF.3.95.980319193539.19449D-100000@adam.adonai.net>
In-Reply-To: <12508.890354292@time.cdrom.com>

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On Thu, 19 Mar 1998, Jordan K. Hubbard wrote:

=>Heh.  I think we first mentioned clustering as something on
=>FreeBSD's wishlist as early as 1995 or so.  The problem here is
=>not in finding enough people to say "yeah, clustering is
=>cool!", the problem here is in finding people to say
=>"clustering is cool, please check out my FreeBSD
=>implementation!" :-(

While Jordan is probably correct (I wasn't around in '95 to see
the wishlist), I'm thinking it is a little more complicated than
that.

First off, I don't know where the "wishlist" is, if, indeed, it
exists as an entity which can be "seen."  I really haven't done a
lot of tinkering around in the web pages, so it might be there
and I just haven't seen it.

Second, I don't think anyone will just present something as
complicated as clustering to the group and say:  "clustering is
cool, please check out my FreeBSD implementation!"  There has to
be a lot of groundwork laid and a fair amount of emphasis from
the top down before any person (or group of people) would take on
something of that size.  Now I think I understand what Jordan was
getting at -- FreeBSD is self supported and that if we don't do
it, nobody else will.  But I also don't think anyone will go out
of their way to do something unless they see some direction for
it.

Third, the potential list of "somebodies" who could really "do
the job" is fairly limited.  While I do have a copy of the entire
tree available to me, it is really those of the core team which
are doing the bulk of the development.  Somewhat over a year ago
I sent out my second message offering to help on a project.  It
was literally the first time I had offered free help and had the
offer turned down.  Jordan responded to my message of dismay
concerning that situation with a description of the core team and
how it worked -- along with an offer to help me get some stuff
going (thanks, Jordan).  Since that time, though, I have seen
several others (including a college senior who wanted to do
something for his senior project) who made similar comments.

This third point isn't all bad.  Part of the reason (I think) 
fbsd is as stable as it is, is because of the limited group of
submitters.  You have tighter control over what does and doesn't
make it into the code base.  This is not bad.  The quality
control is, in fact, good.

But you have to take both sides of that coin. 

What someone like me would have to do is develop something, lock,
stock, and barrel, then present it -- as an outsider -- to
someone on the inside, which I will have to convince to take it
on, in order to get it approved and integrated.  I'll do that for
something rather small.  Perhaps a driver or utility.  But, quite
frankly, I won't put in the time to do anything close to clusters
without some significant support from the "inside." 

So we're back to my original comment: those people who control
the direction of FreeBSD need to take a step back and see where
the industry is moving and see where they want it to be. 

Perhaps you already have, and if I saw the "wishlist" I'd know
it... 

Lee

  =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
                          Lee Crites
                     www.adonai.net/~leec
  Tandem/Compaq (Austin)              Adonai Services Company
  phone: 512-432-7112                     phone: 512-789-7853
  leec@austx.tandem.com                       leec@adonai.net
  =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=


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