Date: Sun, 19 Apr 2020 09:55:47 -0700 From: John Kennedy <warlock@phouka.net> To: Tomasz CEDRO <tomek@cedro.info> Cc: freebsd-x11@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Wayland on FreeBSD Message-ID: <20200419165547.GB923@phouka1.phouka.net> In-Reply-To: <o8rn-snio-wny@FreeBSD.org> References: <CAFYkXjmfyLZAi1HZe-RE3wLxa6GRNP6GkmtZG-4T2puRDOz0JA@mail.gmail.com> <o8rn-snio-wny@FreeBSD.org>
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On Sun, Apr 19, 2020 at 01:50:07PM +0200, Jan Beich wrote: > Tomasz CEDRO <tomek@cedro.info> writes: > > > Hello world :-) > > Time to move from X11 to Wayland :-) > > Anyone using Wayland with success already? > > Many, bsdstats.org should have some numbers from those who opted in. > wlroots-based compositors have very good support and can be tested > without leaving the comfort zone of xorg-server: > > - x11-wm/cage: kiosk, good for nesting > - x11-wm/hikari: stacking with some tiling, developed on FreeBSD > - x11-wm/sway: manual tiling, often first to adopt new wlroots features > - x11-wm/wayfire: stacking with some tiling, many plugins > > ... I'm using Sway myself primarily with X11 applications. For example, > "vblank_mode=0 glxgears" shows 3x more FPS than on real Xorg server. ;) I did some testing a while back and was generally happy. I had some issues with crashing and weird-console-mode (and Jan may have been the one that pointed me at proposed patches that helped, at least with console mode), but I was pretty happy with the results, not that I kept up with it because of the crashing. This was months and months, even before the virus before-time. The crashing was all about how many windows you had open, which I could easily hit with web browsing (somewhere north of 28). It crashed wayland back to text console, so that was sorta hard on work productivity which is why I backed off. That could be fixed by now. At home where i have fast computers and non-work hours, I tend to have nVidia which initially seemed to be an issue (nvidia-driver). It didn't occur to me to try a different nvidia driver that might have worked. I started out with sway (pre-hikari) because of the early work done there. I'm still rocking 1980s retro-style X11 (including ctwn) because I want a light-weight, minimalistic (small attack surface area), although in the past I've used Gnome and Xfce (via Fedora). It's a LOT of extra pieces, but I really started to draw the line when they were going for "social" integration. I don't want a vast chunk of my graphics stack connected to outside input, so back to the 80s I went, trying to add some eye candy to keep me happy. In short, I'm looking for something that doesn't have a ton of baggage (at least if it's the baggage I don't want). (: Minimal attack surface area. To me, wayland is a good thing because it tries to cut out some serious ancient X11 dead-wood, but still seems to let all the regular X11 apps run (IE, backward compatibility). I think X is trying to do this too, but very very slowly because they have a LOT of compatibility to maintain. If they pulled a X12 break-fix, then they have years of fun. But they know it: https://www.x.org/wiki/Development/X12/ Right now, it feels like the equivalent of the entire Xserver is built into the window manager. I suppose that is Ok, if I was really into that specific window manager. I'm not sure if that will cause an explosion of window managers (not that x11-wm doesn't contain a ton, but it's had decades). As as user of something that is inspired by twm, I shouldn't throw stones there.
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