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Date:      Mon, 29 Jul 1996 12:07:32 -0700
From:      Jake Hamby <hamby@aris.jpl.nasa.gov>
To:        chat@freebsd.org
Subject:   "UNIX doesn't run on PCs."
Message-ID:  <31FD0BF4.33A6@aris.jpl.nasa.gov>

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Saw this on comp.sys.linux.advocacy.  Seems that Steve Ballmer thinks that
"UNIX doesn't run on PCs."  Well, he tries to clarify that, but anyway read the
attachment for yourself, the original poster makes some good points, esp. about
Microsoft's opinion and advertising spin about UNIX lately, e.g. claiming that
Visual Basic is "Not some proprietary language" when in fact that's _exactly_
what all of their products are.

-- 
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|Jake Hamby| Ask me about Unix, FreeBSD, Solaris, The Tick, BeBox, or NT, eh?|
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Path: llyene!wlbr!europa.chnt.gtegsc.com!usenet.eel.ufl.edu!spool.mu.edu!daily-planet.execpc.com!newspump.sol.net!newsfeeder.sdsu.edu!nntp.primenet.com!news.primenet.com!jstern
From: jstern@Primenet.Com (Josh Stern)
Newsgroups: comp.os.linux.advocacy
Subject: Re: Microsoft says Linux's X is incomplete? Valid?
Date: 26 Jul 1996 04:38:01 -0700
Organization: Primenet Services for the Internet
Lines: 105
Message-ID: <4taamp$25o@nnrp1.news.primenet.com>
References: <jeffgus.838223585@ingleside> <wpafwnfi5n.fsf@krait.es.ele.tue.nl>
X-Posted-By: jstern@usr08.primenet.com

Raymond Nijssen  <raymond@krait.es.ele.tue.nl> wrote:

>You can safely expect that EI for X will depend on otherwise unnecesary
>M$-proprietary X-extensions which other X-vendors will have to pay for.

My expectation is that MS would port IE using one of those
tools that automagically generates Motif source from Windows
source.  Then the Unix versions of IE will be bloated and
inefficient, giving MS an opportunity to run comparison adds
showing better performance with NT.

Btw - has everyone noticed Microsoft's new marketing strategy
of claiming that they are open standards and Unix solutions
are proprietary?  In every interview I read from some Microsoft
rep these days, something along these lines is always
mentioned.  For instance, look at the interview with Steve
Ballmer in the latest Information Week (www.informationweek.com)
He basically says that Unix doesn't 'really' run on Intel
machines and that developers can choose between NT or
Unix on "proprietary" RISC platforms (as if Intel is
non-proprietary).

Here is the relevant portion of the interview:


   
   IW: What about the question of NT's market versus Novell Directory
   Services versus UNIX?
   
   BALLMER: Well, when you look at it, it's just weird. NetWare has
   pigeonholed itself by saying they don't want to be a general-purpose
   application server, which is just unusual. I think it's not a winning
   proposition for them, long-term. Certainly not in the InformationWeek
   accounts.
   
   Maybe it'll work in smaller businesses but it isn't going to work in
   InformationWeek accounts. People want to run applications and they
   don't really want to have to learn two administrative models, two
   scripting models, two directory models, two of everything. This is my
   view of the world. I think they've made a mistake. And maybe they feel
   very good about the decisions they've made. I say again, I think
   they've made a mistake. Certainly, it feels like it's allowing us to
   build share.
   
   Now, if people just want to do file and print service, I think there's
   some advantages to what we have. There are some nice things that are
   in NDS. We're rolling out our directory stuff. We have this big design
   preview coming later this year. I think November [is when] we've said
   that thing will be where we kind of show the whole gauntlet of things
   that we'll have for, not only directory but for distributed services,
   how it builds on the directory that we already have built into
   Exchange. We talked about it some on our intranet day. But Novell is
   so behind the eight-ball because they've said they're not an
   applications server.
   
   UNIX's big problem--or our big opportunity--is that UNIX doesn't run
   on PCs. I mean, it does but it doesn't, in the sense that there is no
   bigtime, powerful, exciting, dynamic vendor who you can count on being
   around pushing UNIX on the PC. I mean, Sun's not really doing that
   with Solaris. SCO (the Santa Cruz Operation) is a fine company, of
   which we own 15%, but I don't believe you could say that they are a
   big, dynamic, name brand [thatıs] going to be around a long time. And
   I think everybody accepts that the PC is the deployment platform of
   the future.
   
   People tell you, we're going to have our mainframes for 20 years.
   People tell you this, they'll tell you that, they'll tell you the
   other thing. But there's nobody who won't tell you, "Hey, if I have to
   start a new application tomorrow, it's either going to be on a RISC
   UNIX system or it's going to be on a PC. I'd like it to be on a PC,
   but I'll just have to make sure that it's scaleable enough." That's
   the discussion, and believe me, the PC just got a lot better in the
   last few months, when Oracle said that NT would be treated as a
   product development platform with UNIX.
   
   What did that do? That put more pressure on other platforms, because
   it means that Oracle is going to do their best work not only on the
   proprietary, higher-end hardware but also on PCs with NT. So, I think
   that nobody's serious about putting UNIX on a PC means that it is in
   trouble. It seems a simple formula: Be a file server, be a Web server,
   be an apps server, run on a PC. Does that sound like such a magical
   formula? It doesn't to me. It sounds like, at this stage in the game,
   a pretty obvious product definition. But the only product that passes
   that test today really is NT, and that's really allowing us to ramp
   our business.


Fair warning: this part is buried within pages and pages of
other drivel.  There is also another long interview with
another Microsoft rep in the same issue online.  This
comes one week after this publication ran the "NT Reality Check"
story.



- Josh



   
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jstern
jstern@primenet.com
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