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Date:      Thu, 14 Aug 1997 16:05:22 -0700
From:      "Randy A. Katz" <randyk@ccsales.com>
To:        dennis <dennis@etinc.com>, Richard Hodges <rh@alpine.net>
Cc:        isp@FreeBSD.ORG
Subject:   Re: Multi-homed - Load Balancing - No Single Point of Failure
Message-ID:  <3.0.3.32.19970814160522.00d0fd30@ccsales.com>
In-Reply-To: <3.0.32.19970814171131.00e79ac0@etinc.com>

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Dennis,

I am looking for a solution. I don't see you've answered my original
questions...Multi-homed - Load Balancing - No Single Point of
Failure...apparently you've been fighting with these guys for awhile but I
don't feel like you've given my questions a go.

Here they were:

>Given two upstream providers is it possible to use a single or two FreeBSD
>boxes to do BGP routing and load balancing? And if so, what equipment
>should we use? T1 Cards? Routers?
>
>My current provider is telling us we need a Cisco 4700 (20-30,000). I was
>thinking if I could get a powerfull FreeBSD box (200MHz Pro/MMX with 128MB
>RAM) to do the routing it would be just as good and about 20,000 less
>expensive...please let me know if I'm off my rocker!
>
>Thanx,
>Randy Katz
>
>
At 05:11 PM 8/14/97 -0400, dennis wrote:
>At 12:11 PM 8/14/97 -0700, you wrote:
>>On Thu, 14 Aug 1997, dennis wrote:
>>
>>> >My "typical" router is one T1 and one Ethernet.
>>> >
>>> >Etinc: (new)       Ascend: (new)           cisco: (used)
>>> >---------------    ---------               -----------
>>> > $550  5025 card   $1025  Pipeline 130     $1200  2501 (used)
>>> > $125  cable       $ n/a  v.35 cable n/a   $  ??  cable may be included
>>> > $400  DSU/CSU     $ n/a  DSU/CSU          $ 400  DSU/CSU
>>> >----               ------                  -----
>>> >$1075 (w/o host)   $1025  ready to go      $1600  ready to go
>>> >
>>> >+ $50  to add F/R    + 0  included           $ 0  included
>>> 
>>> Well, almost..its $585. for a card and a cable (Perhaps you confused
>>> our cable with Cisco's?), and $375 for a CSU/DSU, so you are
>>> talking $960.
>>
>>Ok.  Your web page said the cable was not included, and the v.35
>>cable below had a price of $125.  So I just figured...
>
>Thats a quad-V.35 cable...the cable is 40.
>
>>
>>> For slow, single port routers....yeah, you may be right. Of course 
>>> no one makes any money on a low-end router anyway, so who
>>> cares?
>>
>>If I need several low-end routers, then *I* care.
>>
>>> >Yes, I *DO UNDERSTAND* that *BSD is much more powerful for
>>> >routing...  But I know how to set up cisco and Ascend.
>>> 
>>> This, is a personal problem. If you *don't* the learning curve is similar.
>>
>>I understand FreeBSD better than you think.  Your cards I do not.
>>
>>> >Your web page documentation could benefit greatly if you would put
>>> >your manuals, tips, and configuration information online.  You see,
>>> >I want to know everything about the job *BEFORE I BUY*.
>>> 
>>> If you're talking to ET, it IS up there, so perhaps we're on a different
>>> wavelength.
>>
>>I would love to read your product manuals and configuration guides.
>>(That is really what I am asking for.)  What are the URLs?
>
>Uh...try clicking on the "manuals" section. I forget what color it is.
>
>>
>>> >If I could get your basic 5025 with cable for $250 to $300, I would
>>> >probably get one for experimentation.
>
>We are not in the business of funding your experimentation....
>
>>
>>> Perhaps, some day, when we are really hard up for business we
>>> will consider such a *program*.... :-) But for now things are pretty
>>> much booming....
>>
>>If I knew your products were better than my other options, I would be
>>willing to pay more.  Since I do not know that, my "experimental"
>>budget is smaller.
>
>another personal problem....
>
>>
>>> >I hope you don't take this as a grip, but if you do, please consider
>>> >it that I really would like to try your products... but the price is
>>> >too high and I need a chance to build confidence in them.
>>
>>> The price is *approproiate*.
>>
>>You have not demonstrated your products' full value (yet) TO ME...
>
>I can never convice you with words, and Im not giving one to you for free,
>so you're stuck with Ascend.
>
>>
>>> For $300. its not worth the trouble dealing with you...
>>
>>That is a funny way to phrase it...  But I understand.
>>
>>If the customer is not saying "yes", then you must educate your customer
>>until he understands why the product is worth what you are asking.
>
>If it works it is worth is, if it doesnt then it isnt worth anything. Like
>someone said,
>we've been over it many times before...the arguments are constant.
>
>If you're never going to grow beyond 1 line, you dont care about bandwidth 
>management or cant figure out how to run ifconfig on a PTP interface, then
>maybe it isnt worth it for you. 
>
>Dennis
>
>



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