Date: Sun, 22 Jan 2023 01:36:27 -0500 From: Paul Procacci <pprocacci@gmail.com> To: "Greg 'groggy' Lehey" <grog@freebsd.org> Cc: Ian Smith <smithi@nimnet.asn.au>, freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Out of order posting (was:: Load 0.20 on a freshly installed idle system) Message-ID: <CAFbbPui=zc5-ERz06gr1nLFy_SWuOZ67ubvoKiT2kPSubHy7bw@mail.gmail.com> In-Reply-To: <20230122060127.GB8068@eureka.lemis.com> References: <CAGAKwcjmzz%2B6NMaK2YpjWZPB282RvrKV6zQ%2BSLHsDj3zqXwvGw@mail.gmail.com> <CAFbbPuhX%2BrJFLn8ALVNbCujf1tG3DufVWGSknPkJ%2BKdovFq1xQ@mail.gmail.com> <CAGAKwcgFWukBrB_6SZVAoC4YKyPVhVMGED4aB6Z4E1fwZAO6mg@mail.gmail.com> <CAFbbPuhyJDewvE_a6MQpiGrpUew7EtxZKwt_=RHODNUyCYNduw@mail.gmail.com> <CAGAKwcghHH5t1_dtWPkOCwxPvDra%2BmgNFTQsG65i1_7pzTDkug@mail.gmail.com> <CAFbbPujMDQgo=zvSc5orcT=v3ftrVPXDjZE-D%2BUxt3%2BdOjFmUA@mail.gmail.com> <CAGAKwcid8j3C28wiypO87X9HT9Wq8cfTNHWnOQvcQgAcWrFuLw@mail.gmail.com> <CAGAKwcgZz8gujtd8gPBoC5nKxE00q1Pau6%2BiOUjxBR-UMMNpKw@mail.gmail.com> <1889CB4C-4B11-4178-8446-97DA9E5EC35A@nimnet.asn.au> <CAFbbPui=uPmKoKYo2t2KaXu=yWUT%2Ba4wksqnwvCjJpBsaALcpQ@mail.gmail.com> <20230122060127.GB8068@eureka.lemis.com>
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[-- Attachment #1 --] Thanks for your insight. Here's the fact of the matter. Unless I'm using an email client where I can move a cursor to the position needed to tip me off what kind of posting is required for said email (like Mutt), then the steps necessary to conform to various `rules' on various forms/lists/work emails/etc is simply too much work. Also a fact: not once has anyone complained to me about top posting until now. Also a fact: I was asked not to bottom post elsewhere albeit quite a long time ago. I'm not an advocate of either method, just don't have the time to conform. Not only do I use gmail as is evident by this email, but I use other email clients as well. All their defaults are top posting oriented. This is what led me to state to either ignore my messages or block me. I certainly won't be offended and have better things to worry about other than posting methodology on various lists. ~Paul On Sun, Jan 22, 2023 at 1:01 AM Greg 'groggy' Lehey <grog@freebsd.org> wrote: > [message rearranged and trimmed for compliance and legibility] > > On Saturday, 21 January 2023 at 1:38:12 -0500, Paul Procacci wrote: > > On Fri, Jan 20, 2023 at 11:44 PM Ian Smith <smithi@nimnet.asn.au> wrote: > >> > >> PS Also bugging me is dreadful endless top-posting, tail-quoting > Microsoft > >> corporate-email-style mess. > > > > Sorry but blame google and/or gmail for the top posting. > > Why? Have you not read their instructions? At > https://support.google.com/a/users/answer/9283192 under "Have better > email conversations", there's the item "Reply inline to email". That > seems to be exactly what we're asking for. > > > I use whatever their defaults are and that's not going to change > > unless they change it. > > You can put your answer wherever you want, though they may not make it > easy. But it's your choice to use Gmail. I'd suggest to put your > answers: > > * Where it matches what you're answering. > * Where it matches the project guidelines. > > Where are the project guidelines? Currently there's > https://docs.freebsd.org/en/articles/freebsd-questions/, which contains: > > Include relevant text from the original message. Trim it to the > minimum, but do not overdo it. It should still be possible for > somebody who did not read the original message to understand what > you are talking about. > > Use some technique to identify which text came from the original > message, and which text you add. I personally find that prepending > “>” to the original message works best. Leaving white space after > the “> ;” and leave empty lines between your text and the original > text both make the result more readable. > > Put your response in the correct place (after the text to which it > replies). It is very difficult to read a thread of responses where > each reply comes before the text to which it replies. > > > RFC's surrounding usenet described this in pretty clear detail. (Just > > looked it up: 1855). > > Thanks for the link, though I don't see anything that relates to the > current discussion. About the only thing of relevance I see is: > > do not include the entire original! > > > At this point in my life all I would suggest to you is to either > > suck it up or ban/ignore the messages from senders you don't want to > > see. Mine included. > > This would be a rather drastic approach. Discussion is better. > > > I found this to be a better approach than attempting to correct > > people on what is the proper `netiquette'. > > Whatever you want, of course. But if you're prepared to accept a > supposed mandate by Gmail, I wonder how objective you're being. > > Greg > -- > Sent from my desktop computer. > See complete headers for address and phone numbers. > This message is digitally signed. If your Microsoft mail program > reports problems, please read http://lemis.com/broken-MUA.php > -- __________________ :(){ :|:& };: [-- Attachment #2 --] <div dir="ltr"><div>Thanks for your insight. Here's the fact of the matter.</div><div>Unless I'm using an email client where I can move a cursor to the position needed to tip me off what kind of posting is required for said email (like Mutt), then the steps necessary to conform to various `rules' on various forms/lists/work emails/etc is simply too much work.<br></div><div>Also a fact: not once has anyone complained to me about top posting until now.<br></div><div>Also a fact: I was asked not to bottom post elsewhere albeit quite a long time ago.<br></div>I'm not an advocate of either method, just don't have the time to conform. Not only do I use gmail as is evident by this email, but I use other email clients as well. All their defaults are top posting oriented.<br><div>This is what led me to state to either ignore my messages or block me. I certainly won't be offended and have better things to worry about other than posting methodology on various lists.</div><div><div><div><br></div><div>~Paul<br></div><div><br></div><div> </div><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Sun, Jan 22, 2023 at 1:01 AM Greg 'groggy' Lehey <<a href="mailto:grog@freebsd.org" target="_blank">grog@freebsd.org</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">[message rearranged and trimmed for compliance and legibility]<br> <br> On Saturday, 21 January 2023 at 1:38:12 -0500, Paul Procacci wrote:<br> > On Fri, Jan 20, 2023 at 11:44 PM Ian Smith <<a href="mailto:smithi@nimnet.asn.au" target="_blank">smithi@nimnet.asn.au</a>> wrote:<br> >><br> >> PS Also bugging me is dreadful endless top-posting, tail-quoting Microsoft<br> >> corporate-email-style mess.<br> ><br> > Sorry but blame google and/or gmail for the top posting.<br> <br> Why? Have you not read their instructions? At<br> <a href="https://support.google.com/a/users/answer/9283192" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://support.google.com/a/users/answer/9283192</a>; under "Have better<br> email conversations", there's the item "Reply inline to email". That<br> seems to be exactly what we're asking for.<br> <br> > I use whatever their defaults are and that's not going to change<br> > unless they change it.<br> <br> You can put your answer wherever you want, though they may not make it<br> easy. But it's your choice to use Gmail. I'd suggest to put your<br> answers:<br> <br> * Where it matches what you're answering.<br> * Where it matches the project guidelines.<br> <br> Where are the project guidelines? Currently there's<br> <a href="https://docs.freebsd.org/en/articles/freebsd-questions/" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://docs.freebsd.org/en/articles/freebsd-questions/</a>, which contains:<br> <br> Include relevant text from the original message. Trim it to the<br> minimum, but do not overdo it. It should still be possible for<br> somebody who did not read the original message to understand what<br> you are talking about.<br> <br> Use some technique to identify which text came from the original<br> message, and which text you add. I personally find that prepending<br> “>” to the original message works best. Leaving white space after<br> the “> ;” and leave empty lines between your text and the original<br> text both make the result more readable.<br> <br> Put your response in the correct place (after the text to which it<br> replies). It is very difficult to read a thread of responses where<br> each reply comes before the text to which it replies.<br> <br> > RFC's surrounding usenet described this in pretty clear detail. (Just<br> > looked it up: 1855).<br> <br> Thanks for the link, though I don't see anything that relates to the<br> current discussion. About the only thing of relevance I see is:<br> <br> do not include the entire original!<br> <br> > At this point in my life all I would suggest to you is to either<br> > suck it up or ban/ignore the messages from senders you don't want to<br> > see. Mine included.<br> <br> This would be a rather drastic approach. Discussion is better.<br> <br> > I found this to be a better approach than attempting to correct<br> > people on what is the proper `netiquette'.<br> <br> Whatever you want, of course. But if you're prepared to accept a<br> supposed mandate by Gmail, I wonder how objective you're being.<br> <br> Greg<br> --<br> Sent from my desktop computer.<br> See complete headers for address and phone numbers.<br> This message is digitally signed. If your Microsoft mail program<br> reports problems, please read <a href="http://lemis.com/broken-MUA.php" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://lemis.com/broken-MUA.php</a><br>; </blockquote></div><br clear="all"><br>-- <br><div dir="ltr">__________________<br><br>:(){ :|:& };:</div></div></div></div>
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