Date: Tue, 13 Jul 1999 23:47:32 -0700 From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" <jkh@zippy.cdrom.com> To: Brett Glass <brett@lariat.org> Cc: Greg Black <gjb-freebsd@gba.oz.au>, Garrett Wollman <wollman@khavrinen.lcs.mit.edu>, security@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Module magic Message-ID: <66670.931934852@zippy.cdrom.com> In-Reply-To: Your message of "Tue, 13 Jul 1999 23:07:50 MDT." <4.2.0.58.19990713230358.044ebdb0@localhost>
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Brett, did you buy a copy of CDE for FreeBSD when it was available? No? If not then you're part of the problem rather than the solution to this problem (as the message you cited clearly defines) and any further debate on the topic would be pointless. We'd just be going over the same old tired ground again - the non-buyers beating their chests over the fact that more ISVs aren't tripping over their shoelaces in a race to sell commercial software to markets uninterested in buying it. There's no point in getting delusionally paranoid about something which represents nothing more than market forces in action, sheesh! I also think it's somewhat ironic that their CDE sales have been so heavily tilted towards Linux as of late whereas the FreeBSD folks appear to have almost universally jumped on the KDE or GNOME bandwagons rather than buying CDE from XiG when it was available. This rabid insistence on using open source alternatives can't possibly be endearing us to the kind of commercial interests you've been trying to attract. :-) - Jordan > At 09:47 PM 7/13/99 -0700, Jordan K. Hubbard wrote: > >XiG continues to support FreeBSD just as it has for years and Thomas > >Roell, the company founder/chief tech, runs FreeBSD on his own > >machine. FreeBSD needs to be supported or he can't work. :) > > Just reviewed my notes, and discovered that it wasn't the X server > but rather two other things that were dropped. Here's a message > you yourself wrote in January, in which you dismiss the notion > of FreeBSD becoming popular on the desktop: > > >Delivered-To: vmailer-chat@freebsd.org > >Received: by hub.freebsd.org (VMailer, from userid 1) > > id 6AF83961F; Sun, 31 Jan 1999 16:33:10 -0800 (PST) > >Received: (from majordom@localhost) > > by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id QAA20266 > > for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Sun, 31 Jan 1999 16:33:09 -0800 (PST) > > (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) > >Received: from zippy.cdrom.com (zippy.cdrom.com [204.216.27.228]) > > by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id QAA20261 > > for <freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG>; Sun, 31 Jan 1999 16:33:08 -0800 ( PST) > > (envelope-from jkh@zippy.cdrom.com) > >Received: from zippy.cdrom.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) > > by zippy.cdrom.com (8.9.2/8.9.2) with ESMTP id QAA79878; > > Sun, 31 Jan 1999 16:33:49 -0800 (PST) > > (envelope-from jkh@zippy.cdrom.com) > >To: The Hermit Hacker <scrappy@hub.org> > >Cc: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG > >Subject: Re: From Slashdot... > >In-reply-to: Your message of "Sun, 31 Jan 1999 15:17:51 -0400." > > <Pine.BSF.4.05.9901311508520.374-100000@thelab.hub.org> > >Date: Sun, 31 Jan 1999 16:33:49 -0800 > >Message-ID: <79876.917829229@zippy.cdrom.com> > >From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" <jkh@zippy.cdrom.com> > >Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG > >Precedence: bulk > >X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > >X-UIDL: 2552690906415f8bf48241823ccaf065 > >Status: U > > > > > ...is FreeBSD destined to be a "server" environment only, with anyone > > > wanting to do any serious graphics or multimedia needing to fall onto the > > > Linux bandwagon? > > > >Yes. Interest in the desktop has been so marginal as to make it no > >longer worth even thinking about and I think it's time to realize that > >the server is our bread and butter. > > > >Everyone talks about how nice desktop support would be but nobody DOES > >anything and, as a result, every initiative to support the desktop > >more seriously in FreeBSD has been a dead loss. The desktop contest > >went down without so much as a single decent entry, XiG sold about 3 > >copies of CDE for FreeBSD when they made a play for the (non-existent) > >FreeBSD desktop market (and don't tell me this was just anti-CDE > >attitudes in action since they sold thousands of copies for Linux) and > >the attempt to bring 3DFX support to FreeBSD has been so long in > >coming that I'm no longer even waiting for it, etc. > > > >If I wanted a Unix machine purely for the desktop today, I'd install > >Linux. It has all the multimedia frobs, support for exotic 3D gfx and > >sound cards, desktop applications, you name it. FreeBSD has a pool of > >about 50 users who feel about as strongly about the desktop, it seems, > >and that's just not enough to reach critical mass, especially when > >those users are not also software developers who can actually write > >drivers and improve existing support. > > > >Do I sound bitter about this? Perhaps just a bit. For whatever > >reason, the multimedia developers have not seen fit to actually > >develop multimedia support in FreeBSD and, as a result, we merely have > >a lot of users milling around asking when their hardware is going to > >work. That's not a winning situation, and it's my hope that perhaps > >DVD support will be the one thing we can do which allows us to catch > >at least the trailing edge of the wave since it's also the one thing > >that people who use X for little more than popping up lots of xterms > >(as most FreeBSD users, including myself, seem to do in a > >server-centric environment) will want. Movies have universal appeal. > > > >- Jordan > > > >To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > >with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-security" in the body of the message
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