Date: Tue, 16 Jun 1998 09:57:21 +0200 (CEST) From: Malte Lance <malte@webmore.com> To: Frank Pawlak <fpawlak@execpc.com> Cc: Joao Carlos Mendes Luis <jonny@jonny.eng.br>, chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Funny, but true... Message-ID: <XFMail.980616095721.malte@webmore.com> In-Reply-To: <980616003156.ZM3307@darkstar.connect.com>
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Frank, you are right !!! I were looking through abstract philosophical eyes on a feature of real life. If my previous mail was offending to you, then please take my apologize. Malte. On 16-Jun-98 Frank Pawlak wrote: > Paradox? Not so sure that it is. They case you make is true. No matter how > the questions are answered, if you are an undesirable alien you are either > not > admitted or kicked out. That is how things should be. In effect we already > have more than our quota of naive terrorists. prostitutes, and other assorted > criminals without importing any more. The primary function of a central > government is to protect its' citizens from those individuals or groups that > wish us harm. > > The end result is that if you are a citizen of a foreign country, and don't > belong to any of those classes of people, you are entirely welcome to enter, > visit, and enjoy the USA. If you are a person of such stature that has a > problem truthfully answering those questions, I'm not so sure that I'd want > you > here either. Be it paradoxical or not, mission acomplished. > > Whether or not the State Department is paranoid or not, personally I'd prefer > that they were a little paranoid. As I stated, there are citizens of other > countries, rightly or wrongly, that don't hold Americans or the USA in high > esteem. We really don't need outsiders doing World Trade Center bombings or > opening up with an AK47 and hosing the shit out of a bunch innocent civilians > just to get their rocks off. > > Frank > > On Jun 15, 8:41am, malte@webmore.com wrote: >> Subject: Re: Funny, but true... >> The whole thing has somewhat of a classical paradoxon. >> - Assume you are a person that wants to enter US-territory and >> belongs into the class of people that are covered by the >> questions (terrorist, prostitute, criminal, ... whatever). >> >> 1. If you tell the truth when asked this questions, you will be >> kicked off and are not allowed to enter US-territory. >> So you are forced to lie. >> 2. If you lie on the questions, you will be kicked off, when they >> find out you did not tell the truth; so you are forced to tell >> the truth. >> 3. Goto 1. >> >> Malte. >> >> On 15-Jun-98 Frank Pawlak wrote: >> > On Jun 13, 4:59pm, Joao Carlos Mendes Luis wrote: >> >> Subject: Funny, but true... >> >> How to get an American Visa ? >> >> >> >> I noted that american people coming to Brasil do not understand >> >> why they must get a visa. The reason is that the brasilian >> >> foreign politics is to give foreigners the same treatment brasilians >> >> receive in their country. Well, I want to take my vacations at >> >> Disneyland (who said I'm too old for that ? :) ), and the United >> >> States require a visa for me (Portuguese residing in Brazil) to enter >> >> its territory. >> >> >> >> The most laughable thing is the form I was required to fill. >> >> It is composed of some reasonable questions: Name, Address, >> >> Documentation, etc., but also has these question (in portuguese, >> >> the translation is mine): >> >> >> >> - Have you ever traded drugs or practiced prostitution ? >> >> - Have ever tried to get into USA or help others to get into USA >> >> using a false visa, or any other kind of fraud or false >> >> information ? >> >> - Do you intend to get into USA to practice export control violations, >> >> subversive or terrorist activities, or with any ilegal objective ? >> >> - Have you ever ordered, incited, helped or in any way practiced >> >> persecution of any person because of his race, religion, nationality, >> >> or politic beliefs, under the direct or indirect command of the >> >> Nazi German Government or any Government allied with it ? >> >> - Have you ever participated in a genocide ? >> >> - Are you a member or representative of a terrorist organization ? >> >> >> >> Do these guys really expect some real terrorist or similar to >> >> answer yes to any of these questions ??? >> >> >> >> >> > >> > Jonny, >> > >> > I am not an official of the US Government, but I would suspect that the >> > answers >> > to these questions would enhance the ability to prosecute those that enter >> > the >> > USA and commit various crimes. It would allow prosecution and >> > deportations >> > based on entery under false pretense. That document you have to fill out > is >> > probable done under oath and is thus a sworn deposition. >> > >> > Basically it means that your leagal rights while here can depend on how >> > truthful the answers to those questions are. >> > >> > I am aware that Americans, citizens of the USA, are often not well liked >> > by >> > citizens of other countries, but, we are not all fools either. So if you >> > think >> > about the implications of answering those questions falsely, you may get a >> > clearer picture of why they are there. >> > >> > Frank >> > >> > Jonny >> >> >> >> -- >> >> Joao Carlos Mendes Luis M.Sc. Student >> >> jonny@jonny.eng.br Universidade Federal do Rio de Janeiro >> >> >> >> To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org >> >> with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message >> >>-- End of excerpt from Joao Carlos Mendes Luis >> > >> > >> > >> > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org >> > with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message >> >> ---------------------------------- >> E-Mail: malte@webmore.com >> Date: 15-Jun-98 >> Time: 08:23:17 >> ---------------------------------- >>-- End of excerpt from malte@webmore.com > > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message > ---------------------------------- E-Mail: Malte Lance <malte@webmore.com> Date: 16-Jun-98 Time: 09:44:56 ---------------------------------- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message
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