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Date:      Sun, 29 May 2005 00:18:07 -0700
From:      John Jawed <johnjawed@gmail.com>
To:        freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org
Subject:   Re: Main site makeover
Message-ID:  <a9eb3585050529001856b728b1@mail.gmail.com>
In-Reply-To: <c3ac406e38228864bfdf51f416da2d92@czv.com>
References:  <20050528165128.DEB8B1F50B1@ws1-2.us4.outblaze.com> <20050528225538.GD19079@gothmog.gr> <c3ac406e38228864bfdf51f416da2d92@czv.com>

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That design is very good. Like I said before, my design is still in it's=20
early stages, and I've taken time to make it completely in CSS...so it is=
=20
easy to implement with current/dynamic content.

I think it's a waste of time to try to keep propogating a small redesign=20
(you would have to propogate every table property, etc) through the entire=
=20
site, and then again do a complete revamp of it. The FreeBSD site has been=
=20
up for how long now? I think people have gotten used to it's current look.=
=20
If introducing a new look is the idea, then introduce it, not it's watered=
=20
down version...just to change it yet again. Consistency is one of the main=
=20
goals all software related projects should undertake.=20

Changing it once with a small redesign, then changing it again with a whole=
=20
new redesign, then possibly again, just makes for no consistent behavior.=
=20

IMHO, only one change should be to make a move to an all CSS layout.=20
Dropping these table orientated styles will open many new doors for the=20
FreeBSD site, including, an easy to port mobile version of the documentatio=
n=20
(imagine getting the help you need properly formatted and easy to read=20
through your PDA).

Regards

On 5/28/05, Chris Zumbrunn <chris@czv.com> wrote:
>=20
> On May 29, 2005, at 12:55 AM, Giorgos Keramidas wrote:
>=20
> > On 2005-05-28 11:51, Fafa Hafiz Krantz <fteg@london.com> wrote:
> >>>> What happened to this?
> >>>> http://www.monkey.org/freebsd/archive/freebsd-advocacy/200412/
> >>>> msg00080.html
> >>>>
> >>>> I don't know if these were generated from real HTML/CSS or just
> >>>> created in a graphics editor.
> >>>
> >>> Actually, I've seen a front page that Chris did (I think) that's got
> >>> the nice menu across the top and a really well designed front page.
> >>
> >> I just wanted to point out;
> >>
> >> There's *nothing* new about that design.
> >> It still follows the old principles.
> >
> > It's ok. Small incremental changes are easier to test and accept than
> > a
> > full "throw it all away and use mine" style of update.
> >
> > The site now uses CSS a lot more than before, AFAIK. I'm not a web
> > design guru, but if someone came up with a style that looks like, say,
> > Wikipedia it would be interesting.
> >
> > Any takers who want to try revamping the front page by using *only* CSS
> > style changes?
>=20
> Yes, that was exactly the idea. There is a version committed in
> Perforce that took that approach and looks like this:
>=20
> http://czv.com/zones/beastie/freebsd/freebsdweb1h.html
> http://czv.com/zones/beastie/freebsd/freebsdweb2h.html
>=20
> For now, the logo competition has put a wrench in going live with a
> small redesign like this.
>=20
> Specially for all the content pages besides the frontpage, it is
> crucial to implement a redesign in a way that is compatible with the
> current way these pages are built. A redesign that requires changes
> beyond that will take forever to implement. What many don't seem to
> understand is that the technical implementation of the design and the
> design itself are two different things. They can't both happen at the
> same time.
>=20
> Changing the technical implementation will be a slow process that
> requires a long term transition without changing the design at the same
> time. The redesign itself is something that is implemented within the
> existing technical framework and can be switched live at once.
>=20
> I still argue that we need to first switch a small redesign live within
> the current technical framework, then change the technical framework
> (which will require updates to the markup of all the pages in the www
> cvs tree for all the languages) and only after that we can undertake a
> major redesign entirely based on CSS definitions.
>=20
> Going a bit farther with just the frontpage is possible as long as it
> is in line with the initially simple changes that can be made to the
> content pages. For example Devon's div-based markup with the dynamic
> menues that is currently in Perforce:
>=20
> http://czv.com/zones/beastie/freebsd/freebsdweb1j.gif
>=20
> Cheers, Chris
>=20
> chris@czv.com +41 329 41 41 41
> Chris Zumbrunn Ventures - http://www.czv.com/
> Internet Application Technology - Reduced to the Maximum
>=20
> _______________________________________________
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g
> "
>=20



--=20
John Jawed
Zend Certified Software Engineer
MySQL AB Certified Developer
http://www.johnjawed.com
http://groups-beta.google.com/group/MySQLi



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