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Date:      Mon, 18 Dec 2000 11:27:52 -0800
From:      "John Howie" <JHowie@msn.com>
To:        "Kurt Seifried" <seifried@securityportal.com>, "Alfred Perlstein" <bright@wintelcom.net>, "Moses Backman III" <penguinjedi@home.com>
Cc:        "Todd Backman" <todd@flyingcroc.net>, <freebsd-security@FreeBSD.ORG>
Subject:   Re: woah
Message-ID:  <017a01c06928$9e20ec60$9207c00a@local>
References:  <Pine.BSF.4.21.0012172347240.48779-100000@security1.noc.flyingcroc.net> <20001218133716.A550@cg22413-a.adubn1.nj.home.com> <20001218104954.B19572@fw.wintelcom.net> <005a01c06924$77186340$ca00030a@seifried.org>

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----- Original Message -----
From: "Kurt Seifried" <seifried@securityportal.com>
To: "Alfred Perlstein" <bright@wintelcom.net>; "Moses Backman III"
<penguinjedi@home.com>
Cc: "Todd Backman" <todd@flyingcroc.net>; <freebsd-security@FreeBSD.ORG>
Sent: Monday, December 18, 2000 10:58 AM
Subject: Re: woah


> Stupid question but why did you send this to me and a mailing list, etc?
>
> > Kurt, I was pretty disappointed to see this article.  If you tear
> > it down the to base content, the only problem with SSL/SSH is stupid
> > users.
>
> And the fact that SSL/SSH rely on said stupid users. Usually the weakest
link...
>

I find the references (here and elsewhere) to stupid users as troubling.
Most users are inexperienced, not stupid, and are certainly not clued up on
Security. Their main focus is getting their work done and not knowing what
it means when some obscure message pops up that lets them proceed even
though they should not. No, the problem is STUPID PROGRAMMERS. We should
write our applications so that users cannot proceed in such circumstances.
The only reason that we build applications so that users can proceed is that
99% of the time the reason the keys have changed/the certificate does not
match the server is because we have reconfigured our systems thus
invalidating (or losing) the keys and certificates and it is perfectly safe
to proceed. Maybe I should add STUPID ADMINISTRATORS to the list here.

It is easy to blame one or more of users, programmers, and administrators
for weak security but until we have the science perfected we all have to
work together.

john...





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